How often do you work with and listen to your feelings? Is it possible to reclaim “health” and “fitness” as a source of joyful movement and body love? Are you intentionally curating your community online and in person? In this podcast episode, Dr. Cristina Castagnini speaks about reclaiming your health from the fitness industry with WeShape’s Katie Bramlett.


Katie Bramlett started WeShape with the intention of advocating for people to stop focusing on the number on the scale and instead put their energy and efforts towards a more meaningful intention. WeShape's entire product is rooted in intention, movement, community, and beliefs. Katie has a passion for bringing awareness to the toxic expectations placed on people in the fitness industry and believes that if we all unsubscribe to those messages we can pave a new path that's rooted in self-acceptance, care, and kindness.

Visit WeShape and connect on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok.


  • Reclaiming the “health” industry
  • Look at the data
  • Work with the feeling
  • Creating a “healthy” health industry

Reclaiming the “health” industry

Collectively, we have to come together and evaluate the fitness industry as a whole and understand why the fitness industry exists, and understand the values that are being placed on that industry. Then I decided, “We’ve got to go a different way.” (Katie Bramlett)
Katie and her team decided to reshape their entire approach. When they first launched WeShape, they were following the norms of the business world around wellness and fitness. After some realizations and soul-searching, they knew that a change was necessary. They decided to completely reframe how they view fitness and health and how they teach it to their clients: focus on how you feel, not what you look like.
We’[ve] moved away from weight loss and diets and all these things that cause a lot of emotional and psychological harm [for] people, and we’re going to focus on delivering a product that’s rooted in self-care, and movement. (Katie Bramlett)
Of course, Katie and her fellow leaders were nervous about making this shift because it meant dropping a business model that gets a lot of success. After all, the fitness industry is commercially rigged to fail its clients to keep them coming back.
I remember thinking, “This feels very scary, to go against the norm and to [take] such financial risk and move away from a [business] model that I knew was successful, but I have never felt better about [making] that decision. (Katie Bramlett)

Look at the data

It’s simple: if diets worked, there wouldn’t be so many. The industry is worth billions of dollars because people are buying products that are not sustainable and do not work over an extended period. This leads to customers having to keep coming back and buying more products or following different diets to keep getting some type of “result”.
On the outside, because our culture supports this narrative, they’re going to get a thumbs up but when we actually look at the individual experiences, they’re wrapped in self-hatred … self-criticism … obsessive thinking, and behaviors. This is harmful. (Katie Bramlett)
But nothing is more long-lasting and truly good for you than simply taking the time and energy to create a healthy, wholesome, and free relationship with food and fitness that you define.
It wasn’t until I said, “Pause, actually think about [the] individual experiences”, [so] actually evaluate your own experience and look historically: did all of those diets make you feel better about yourself? Did all of that pushing with the exercise ad judgment … did that actually serve you? And the answer is “no”. (Katie Bramlett)
It can be difficult to break away from these behaviors because they have been normalized. But just because people say that they are good does not mean that they truly are. At the end of the day, only you (and maybe some trusted doctors) should decide what you do for your body. Don’t underestimate the supreme power of practicing organic and loving self-awareness and intentionally shifting your mindset. Crack the door open to the possibilities that will serve you better in the long run.

Work with the feeling

The forceful mental battle is not sustainable. Forcing yourself and your body to train and restrict and suffer is not an “ideal” way to live your life, especially if you are doing it to gain acceptance, love, or encouragement from your community. The right community will love the person that you are first before your physical body. If you have been stuck in a mental state, running on a thousand thoughts a day, obsessing, forcing, and thinking non-stop, then something different is necessary. Feelings can be scary when you are not used to working with them, but they hold the key to connecting you to peace and your happiest, most whole self.
Value the feelings that you have inside and let [them] be your north star and recognize that sometimes that feeling inside and that north star is going to be counter to what everyone else is telling you, and that’s okay!  (Katie Bramlett)
Be intentional with the people that you surround yourself with in your social group, circle of loved ones, and social media platforms.

Creating a “healthy” health industry

Many societal ideas need to be let go and redone. It is possible to create large-scale change in perception, but it needs to start somewhere, so let it start with you. True value, self-worth, and personal belief do not come directly from body image or a number on the scale.
If we could just call it all out and say, “We can expose this”, I hope that people will shift their value systems … and then we can start making products and providing services to people from that space … we can have a fitness industry but it needs to look different and it needs to stem from a different value system. (Katie Bramlett)
Some of the best positive changes that you can make to the world are to examine and improve your beliefs and ideas about the way that things “should” be in the world. So, be intentional with the content that you interact with and the choices that you make. You can spark a change in your friends, family, business, and the youth that look up to you all by nurturing the flame of a positive change inside of yourself.



  I am a licensed Psychologist and Certified Eating Disorder Specialist. While I may have over 20 years of clinical experience, what I also have is the experience of having been a patient who had an eating disorder as well. One thing that I never had during all of my treatment was someone who could look me in the eye and honestly say to me "hey, I've been there. I understand". Going through treatment for an eating disorder is one of the hardest and scariest things to do. I remember being asked to do things that scared me. Things I now know ultimately helped me to get better. But, at the time, I had serious doubts and fears about it. If even one of my providers had been able to tell me "I know it's scary, but I had to go through that part too. Here's what will probably happen...." then perhaps I would not have gone in and out of treatment so many times. My own experience ultimately led me to specialize in treating eating disorders. I wanted to be the therapist I never had; the one who "got it". I will be giving you my perspective and information as an expert and clinician who has been treating patients for over 2 decades. But don't just take my word for it...keep listening to hear the truly informative insights and knowledge guest experts have to share. I am so happy you are here!


Did you enjoy this podcast? Feel free to comment below and share this podcast on social media! You can also leave a review of Behind The Bite on Apple Podcasts (previously) iTunes and subscribe!

Podcast Transcription

[DR. CRISTINA CASTAGNINI] Behind the Bite Podcast is part of a network of podcasts that are good for the world. Check out podcasts like the Full of Shift podcast, After the First Marriage podcast and Eating Recovery Academy over at Welcome to Behind the Bite Podcast. This podcast is about the real-life struggles women face with food, body image and weight. We're here to help you inspire and create better healthier lives. Welcome. Well, hello everyone. Welcome to the show. As always, I am so happy to have you here and whether this is your first time tuning in or you've listened before, I want to welcome you here and also encourage you to reach out to me. You really do have an impact on what I talk about on here and what type of guests I bring onto the show. So believe it or not, I really do read and listen to all of your messages and want you to make the content on here something that will be helpful and interesting to you. So head on over to and send me a message. I really do listen. For any of you who've listened to any of my podcasts before, you may have heard me say a time or two or 20 about something about the diet and beauty industry and how this 60-billion plus industry impacts us. Or perhaps you've heard me say something about the toxic diet culture we live in and let's just say I am not a fan of either. If you want to know more, you can definitely go back and find several podcasts that focus on these topics. So you may be asking like, why am I mentioning this? It's because our guest today was someone who was part of the diet industry. She was someone who was very successful in selling some of those products and perpetuating those toxic messages. So now you might be wondering, why on earth would I have a guest on here who was part of all of that? Well, it's for very good reason actually, because she's here to talk about something that most people struggle with, which is the truth. It is the truth that led her to walk away from all of her success and lead her to where she's at in her career and in her life today. [DR. CRISTINA] Other than this brief introduction I'm just going to do, I'm not going to say any more about it, I'm going to let her tell you her story and her truth. Katie Bramlett started WeShape with the intention of advocating for people to stop focusing on the number on the scale, and instead put their energy and efforts toward a more meaningful intention. WeShape's entire product is rooted in intention, movement, community, and beliefs. Katie has a passion for bringing awareness to the toxic expectations placed on people in the fitness industry and believes that if we all unsubscribe to those messages, we can pave a new path that's rooted in self-acceptance, care and kindness. Alright, well, Katie, welcome to the show. [KATIE BRAMLETT] Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here and have this meaningful conversation with you today. [DR. CRISTINA] I am as well. I'm so curious, would you mind sharing with us like how you started where you're at now and like how you got here? [KATIE] Yeah, I mean, I always love to give the context of how and why we started WeShape. So years ago my co-founder and I used to run a very successful fitness company. We had lots of followers, we had made the Inc. 500 three times. We were selling various digital fitness products to get six-pack abs and toned bodies and from the outside, I always like to use the analogy of like, my Instagram life looked really good. I was running this business, we had a big team, we were doing really well, but I felt deeply unfulfilled. I remember thinking like, I can't quite put my finger on it, like, what's going on, t. at everything is aligned supposedly, and it just doesn't feel right. The next steps that sort of came after that were me discovering that I was participating in a very toxic, what we call toxic weight loss system once I sort of opened my eyes and realized that my intention was to help people, but the actuality of what we were selling and the system we were participating in was actually causing harm. So once I discovered like, I can't be a part of this system anymore, everything radically changed. I decided we're not going to run that company anymore, we're going to start a new company that's rooted in different intentions that actually considers the physical and psychological and emotional implications of the products that we're selling. It's like, I looked at it like everyone around me in my industry was selling these products and so it was hard to see what I was a part of because everyone was supporting the company mission that we were on. Once I was able to say, you know what, this doesn't really serve the greater good and collectively we have to come together and evaluate this, the fitness industry as a whole and understand why the fitness industry exists and understand the values that were being placed on that industry, then I decided we got to go a different way. I'll tell you right off the bat, after we spent two years making our product we were talking with different people in our industry saying how we're going to move away from weight loss and diets and all these things that have a lot of emotional and psychological harm on people and we're going to be focusing on delivering a product that's rooted in self-care and movement and we're going to ditch the scale, like, people started looking at me like I had three heads. They were like, you'll never be able to sell that product. Why are you going against the grain of our industry? I just remember thinking, this feels very scary to go against the norm and to put such financial risk and move away from a model that I knew was successful but I have never felt better about that decision. So WeShape is really rooted in people learning how to move in their body, so we're not doing fat exercises or max calorie burn or max output or working out seven days a week. We're all about learning how to connect and move with your body. We've created a product that's rooted in community and supporting one another and unsubscribing from diets and scales and calorie counting and learning that the connection with self and finding worth in yourself wherever you might be in your health journey, is the most important thing we can do. So it's been quite a wild ride, but I have never looked back and I feel so much better about what we're putting into the world. [DR. CRISTINA] Now, and that I can imagine that would be scary. Like you said, you were so successful and you were obviously, I mean, this was your livelihood. For anyone listening, could you explain to someone who might not be understanding like what was so harmful about all that? Because you out there in the world, all those things, exercise, diet, all of that is seen as so quote unquote healthy and good for you and doing those things is seen as like what people need to do to have longevity and seen as "fit." So maybe people might be questioning like, well, why are those things harmful? How could those things be bad for you? I know I get those questions all the time. So like, what were you seeing that you're going, wait, this is actually not healthy, "healthy" or these are things that are harmful for people? [KATIE] Well, I mean, we had thousands of people who had purchased our products and all of them had the same story, "Oh, I started the diet but I didn't stick with it." All of that was wrapped in self-judgment, criticism. It felt, and then people who were really sticking in with it were obsessive about it and I was like, this doesn't, on the outside, like, because our culture supports this narrative, they're going to get a thumbs up. But when we actually look at the individual experiences they're wrapped in self-hatred, they're wrapped in self-criticism, they're wrapped in obsessive thinking and behaviors. Like this is harmful. Then it's so funny because our culture supports a narrative that isn't even scientifically sound. We know that diets don't work. Like the data shows us. I think it's something like 98% of diets don't work. I'd like to know the 2% that do, because I actually think it's a hundred. And at what cost, even maybe those 2% that do at what emotional cost. It wasn't, to be honest with you, until I started evaluating my own relationship with exercise and my own relationship with food, I was like, I'm fine. I don't need to worry about those things. Then I was like, oh no, you're completely neurotic about your food. You have food restrictions. You're, like, this is actually not serving you. But since I was doing it and since the culture and the fitness industry was supporting my behavior, I had normalized it. So it wasn't until I said pause, actually think about individual experiences, actually evaluate your own experience and look at historically, did all of those diets make you feel better about yourself? Did all of that pushing with the exercise and the judgment when you missed your workout day, did that actually serve you? The answer was no, and no and no and no. It just, I started just like sinking into the feelings that I was having around these experiences and they did not match what I really wanted for myself. But I think it's hard to separate sometimes because there's a lot of positive reinforcement around these behaviors that we normalize them. I cannot tell you how many people we've had on our podcast that were fitness models or fitness experts and or people who are achieving "great things" physically, great things, in quotes. All of them had the same story, "I had disordered eating, I was miserable, everyone was applauding me, but inside I felt empty." So it's like just extract the personal experiences or even evaluate how you really felt, get truthful with yourself. I've done these things, have they worked? And even if they did was I even fulfilled and happy? I've heard, that's why I said, I don't know where they get the 98, because I think it's a hundred because a hundred percent of the stories I've heard are deeply deep emotional distress, injuries, I mean, you name it. It's just nothing good came from it. So I think it just takes time to pause and reflect and think, did these experiences actually create a feeling in my body that made me feel more connected to myself, that made me feel inner peace, that made me feel self-grace and self-kindness? And I think that once we start unraveling those feelings behind the behaviors and the "norm," we'll discover that something's really missing, something's really off. [DR. CRISTINA] No, absolutely. And I can like a hundred percent agree with you, with everything you're saying. These are the things I hear all the time. It's always interesting to me when people say, no, doc, like it worked, that word worked. Or no, I felt so much better when I was doing all those things. Like I felt so much "healthier." My body felt better. But I think to your point, if people really are honest with themselves, like think about the day-to-day, like what does your day-to-day revolve around? Like how are you living your day-to-day life? Is it --- [DR. CRISTINA] Yeah, one of the things that I discovered right off the bat from my own personal experience was I didn't even realize how much I was thinking about all the decisions I was making, like, oh, you can't have gluten. Oh you can't do this. Oh, you can't do that. Oh, make sure you, and my thoughts were consumed. Well, you can't really enjoy life when your thoughts are consumed with, what did I eat? Am I being healthy? Is that food "good" or bad? Did I get my exercise in? What I've allowed myself to do is get out of this like mental jail that I was in that was predicated on rules and belief systems that really did not serve me. So I like where I am now because I feel like I have this more fluidity in my life. Like when I work out now, it's because I want to, it's because I enjoy movement. The fitness industry has robbed us of connection with self and pleasurable experiences connected to food, pleasurable experiences connected to movement, and they've made exercise punishment and they've made food into good or bad or to this or that, or to this is the best way, or this, it's like, what happens if we just say, I'm going to do an experiment and I'm actually not going to follow those rules anymore and I'm just going to wake up in the morning and ask myself what feels good for me today and just try that out. I just started doing that and after a couple weeks and a couple months and after time started going on, I was like, my mind has so much more capacity for other things I hadn't even realized what I was missing out on because my thoughts were so consumed with the diet and the exercise and the healthiest thing. It's like there is this idea that like if we pertain, if we follow certain rules, we're going to be healthy, but we don't really understand the emotional toll that that takes on us. And let me tell you, there's a lot more to life than deciding what your next meal's going to be, making sure you follow a rule and making sure that you're getting the most exercise. I mean like, there is so much more to enjoy, but we don't even realize how consumed we are by it until we pause and experiment with a different way. [DR. CRISTINA] I can imagine people listening going, okay, that sounds like the scariest thing ever. Like I wouldn't even know what to do. That would freak me out like to just wake up tomorrow and say, okay, I'm going to just see what I want to do or eat what I want to eat. Like people would probably not even know what to do or like, they'd probably be like, I need some guidance. Did you find that for yourself or did you --- [KATIE] I mean I've been, I was really immersed in this, starting in this new world. So I was really doing a lot of interviews with intuitive eating coaches and psychologists and so it was organically unfolding in my personal experience. But what I have found for so many people is that a simple shift in mindset and a simple shift in intention can go so much further than we think. So this idea of like, I would really like to set an intention to maybe start looking at these behaviors in a different way or maybe start examining some of the beliefs that I've been buying into to see if those serve me and to maybe potentially go down a different path. I think that alone can organically open doors that we didn't even know could be open. Does that make sense? It's sort of like when you ask the universe for like, I want to try this other way. Like, I feel like the doors just organically unfold. So I didn't really follow a prescriptive path, but I started with that intention and that intention just was one little door after one little door after one little door that allowed me to go down this journey. In all transparency, I'm still on the journey. I still find myself all the time labeling foods good or bad or this or that and then I just go, oh, there, there's that old pattern. There's that old belief system popping up again. I try just to not judge the judgment but I do believe it starts with just that simple intention and I think that if you ask for that and you have that intention, you don't have to worry so much about what the plan is, just bask in that small, like, I like to think about as like the door was closed to that idea before and I'm just going to crack the door and see what happens as a little experiment [DR. CRISTINA] I think that that is so key, having that awareness like, oh, this is popping up again. This is what is happening. And not judging yourself because I think that judgment is so harmful and that --- [KATIE] There is also a book I like deeply recommend that really opened my eyes by Alex Light called You Are Not a Before Photo. And it, have you read this one? [DR. CRISTINA] No, but I love that title. That's great. [KATIE] What I liked about this one is she just cut to the chase. She was like, this is how you've been fooled. This is how you've been fooled, this is toxic, this is toxic, this is toxic. And my mind just went, I had no idea I was participating in that. I think sometimes we think that we have to have the path paved in order for us to make change, but I also think that's like a false belief. It's like just being open and cracking the door sometimes is enough for a whole slew of new beliefs and opportunities to come in. So I like to encourage people not to be overwhelmed by this, but to just crack the door to possibility and to just be open-minded. Like I started doing things like, I bought a book called Food Is Not Medicine, because it challenged my belief that it was. So two, three years ago, you would've given you a thousand reasons why that book was, should not ever be sold and here I am buying it now. But that all stemmed from just cracking the door to having an open mind and having the opportunity for other possibilities that may better serve me. I invited that intention in [DR. CRISTINA] So as I'm listening to you, I'm just wondering like how on earth some people were just like naysayers to you, like, oh, you can't make this transition. No one's going to like buy into this. Or like, how did you start to make that transition out of like, what was so popular and the norm to like what you're doing now? [KATIE] Well, it's the same thing that I did when I discovered I was part of a system I didn't want to be a part of anymore. It was like the, my Instagram life boxes were checked, but the feeling I had inside was really bad. So I started going, that feeling is leading me down the path that I need to go now. We don't live in a culture that values that feeling. So I had to recognize that and say, well, some people aren't going to understand this feeling that you're talking about, but you are going to get in touch with that feeling and that's how you're going to make decisions. So we're still on this path. We're in the middle of getting funding for this business, and people are like, nah, nah, and I'm like, okay, we get a lot of nos for funding and I'm like, they don't understand what we're trying to do. So whenever I move to my mind, to my head around, oh no, am I making the right decision, I pause and I go, what's the feeling that you have inside? I just keep letting that lead my path because I've gone the other way. I've done all the things that I was supposed to do, and there wasn't alignment and so I'm not going to go back to that anymore. So I think it's to value the feelings that you have inside and to let that be your North Star and to recognize that sometimes that feeling inside and that North Star is going to be counter to what everyone else is telling you and that's okay. That's totally okay. And one of the ways that I've combated that is through my community. So I'm really intentional with the people I surround myself with because it does get hard after a while to say, I'm going to go with this feeling that better serves me but then social media and television and movies and friends and all these things around me are telling me different. I got to shift how I'm participating in those messages so that I can have more alignment with the feeling that I'm having inside. It's another reason I incorporated community into WeShape. So we have like daily community calls because I knew that people were going to need the support because they're going to go have lunch with their friend who's like ordering soup and a salad and saying, look, I have to keep do my calorie counting. I knew that people were going to be like exposed to that so I was like, how do I provide a safe space for people to go where they feel the magnitude and the community element that supports this new belief system? So it was one, trusting that feeling and knowing that it was going to be difficult because it, that feeling wasn't going to match with the cultural value system and then it was slowly integrating people and information and things into my life that had alignment with that North Star for myself. [DR. CRISTINA] I think that's so powerful. I even find that in my own practice. I'm very honest with people and say, look, you might meet with me an hour a week, or you might be in group an hour and a half and you are in this little bubble where we're talking about these things and feeling the support, but you go out into the real world and there's several, several more hours where you're bombarded with diet culture and the messages and hearing people talk about diets and to your point, like exposed to other people talking about all these other things and you might come back and you and be like, no, like everything we talked about is like wrong. It's like, how do you combat that? It's hard. It's very hard. [KATIE] It's really hard. And I remind people like, social media can be an amazing way for people to connect with one another. It can be also extremely harmful. So one of the first things I ask people to do when they join WeShape is go ahead and go on your social media and just start unfollowing because our beliefs are formed by the things and information and people around us. So we just, I think in our culture, in our society, we don't value this process of pausing and sitting with ourself to check in how we feel about that. We get validation from the outside and we make decisions from that space. And I really want to encourage people to start checking in with themselves and getting that validation from within and being honest with yourself, oh, I really like following this person, but if I'm really honest with myself, they make me feel bad about myself. They make me reach for things outside of myself to make me happy. So I'm going to, and I do this thing where I'm like, I'm just going to unfollow them. If I'm still thinking, I can always refollow them later. But I think curating your community and your experience with what you watch and what you read and who you spend your time with are incredibly valuable and a good use of your time. [DR. CRISTINA] Absolutely. It's true too. If you start following one person who like promoting one thing, then you start getting more feed that sends the same message and so it can seem like the whole world is like chatting the same message and that's like, oh, everybody thinks this. So to your point, if you start unfollowing people that have the diet toxic messages about things and you'll start getting feed with people like yourself who are sending these other messages which is great, that's the whole point, is then you'll start creating a world where you're exposed to messages about other things that promote like intuitive eating or listening to your body or other messages about movement that isn't so harsh and like all about burning X amount of calories and like doing things that are harmful to your body. [KATIE] I'll just do a shameless plug. If people want to go to our social media account, WeShape Podcast, we have a ton of guests who are like, who have like social media followings who are great people to follow. So you could literally just like scroll down, click on the person and then follow them. So it's not only about unfollowing people, it's about creating new community that have shared aligned values. I always try to bring people on the podcast who are, who have done the old way, gone through their own level of struggling and suffering through that and have paved a new path and are ready to join forces. So I think that it's totally feasible for us to shift the narrative, to create a new path to expose some of the toxic messages. And I feel like I had to sit in a lot of shame around the business that I was participating in before. I knew if I could just sit in it and work through it, that good could come from it and one of the things that came from it is I deeply understand what people are trying to sell you and why they're trying to sell you it. It's not because they have your best interest at heart, or maybe they think that they do, but they really don't understand the implication of what they're trying to sell. So I don't want to say people are maliciously doing anything but when, I don't think that there are very many fitness companies out there who have stopped to think about the implications psychologically, socially, emotionally, or physically that their products and services might have on people. So I've been there. So even though it was painful to uncover some of those things, I'm glad I went through that because now I can expose a little bit of what's going on behind the door, the closed door. [DR. CRISTINA] No, and I so appreciate that because I think there is so much talk, at least I've talked on here a lot about the diet and beauty industry and how many billions of dollars they make and how powerful they are. They have such a loud voice. So to your point, the more voices we can get that speak the truth and get the word out there to your point, like, follow other people that are saying messages like yours and connect with those voices and build that community. The louder those voices get, the louder those messages get, the narrative can shift and change. I mean, it's slow moving, but I still appreciate even you being on here and saying that and saying, hey, go to my social media, connect with the people that have been on my podcast because that's the whole point of me even having you on here. It's like, how do we start changing the narrative, getting more voices out here? Like something has to shift even if it's slow. [KATIE] The reality is if we as a community come together collectively and shift the value system, the fitness industry can't sell those things anymore. The only reason why they can sell us weight loss products or diets or crazy exercise programs is because we have a value that we need to look a certain way in order to feel worthy. If we can shift that value, they don't have a market anymore. So to me it's about, one educating people on the fitness industry and where they have tried, but where they have gone really wrong and giving people, I feel like the best thing I've been able to do with WeShape is I just want to give people permission to just fully embody like self-acceptance wherever they are in their health and wellness journey. To me, I feel like a lot of people don't stick with programs because they're not really designed with the person's best interest at heart but also because a lot of these programs ask us to come in and even on a conscious or subconscious level, ask us to change something about ourselves. I'm joining this so that I can change something about myself so that I can feel better and I was like, we cannot do that. We ask nothing of our community other than join our community and we're here for your support and we want to give you a product that's rooted in movement and connection with body and a community of people who can support wherever you are. So I just think we have to understand why these things are the way they are. It's because our culture values the idea that there's one body type that we can get ourself worth from looking a certain way. And I promise you can't, I mean, I really promise you self-worth does not come from a certain number on a scale or from how you look physically. It really just does not come from that. So it's like, if we can just call it all out and say, okay, we can expose this. My hope is that people will shift their value systems and cling to something else, and then we can start making products and providing services to people from that space. So it's not about like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It's about saying we can have a fitness industry, but it needs to look different and it needs to stem from a different value system before we can act so that we can actually really serve the human being behind the product or the service. [DR. CRISTINA] No. Well, so well said. I mean, I wish that message was just much louder. So I'm wondering like people listening might be going, okay, so if they joined your community, what would they experience? Like what is your community? Say somebody does go on, like what what's different about your community now versus like what you were providing before? [KATIE] Well, it's not sexy and that's why I think investors have given a lot of pushback. But our product is rooted in four pillars. It's rooted in movement, so not crazy, trendy exercises that are pushing you to, it's rooted in movement and connection with body. It's rooted in community, it's rooted in intention, so like shifting the intention around, I want to look a certain way to, I want to feel connected to self, and it's rooted in beliefs. We can't, all of the decisions and behaviors we act out of come from belief systems. So that's why we started the podcast and that's why we provide educational resources for our community so they can better understand some of the toxic messages that come with the traditional fitness industry. We offer people at home extremely personalized, customized workouts that are rooted in figuring out what their particular body needs. So it's complicated. There's a lot of exercise science and technology that deliver the workouts, but essentially people just push play and they get to interact with the workout and scale up or scale down as they're moving. We constantly reiterate, this is not about doing the hardest exercise. This is not about burning calories. This is about feeling your body, connecting with your body and learning how to move in your body so that you feel good. So that's like what the programming is rooted in. Then we offer community calls. We have a couple calls a week that are Q&As with our head coach. So sometimes people will get this customized workout, but then they still have questions like, oh, my shoulder's still bothering me, or this is still happening. So they can have like real FaceTime with some of our head coaches so that they can get some questions answered. Then we have community support calls where we just check in on one another and build connection. So when, and they're not rooted in how much weight did you lose? In fact, I actually ask people not to talk about that. Like, we're not interested in that unfortunately. I'm sorry, you've come to the wrong place. We're interested in how are you doing? How's your week going? Do you need support from this community in a way that you might have a hard time asking for? I recently had a call, I lead one of the calls and I had a woman on the call who was like, "Oh, you know I didn't know if I could come today because I haven't done my workout in two weeks." I said, "Oh, I'm really sorry that you're feeling a lot of self-judgment around that you didn't do the workout, but we actually don't have an expectation of how frequently you should be doing the workout. We actually just ask you to do what you can. When you miss the workouts, we actually ask that you give yourself kindness and compassion and grace. I'm not here to motivate you into your workouts. I'm here to offer you kindness and community and support." I remember just watching the pressure lift off of her shoulders. Like, wait, I don't, I'm still worthy even if I don't do the workouts? I'm like, I miss workouts all the time. Like, it's not about how many workouts you're doing, it's about are you, do you have a landing place that's full of kindness and compassion. When you have an off weekend, you don't do your workout, fine, we're not asking. In fact, I've been really particular with our head of products saying like, I really want to be careful about giving a lot of badges or rewards or for completing workouts because I just feel like that's missing the whole point. So we have the community and then the way we're tackling the beliefs pillar is we launched our podcast, we have guests like yourself on, intuitive eating coaches so that we can sort of debunk some of the myths behind the messages that we've had. So I really think that if we can provide sort of a platform that's rooted in movement and addressing the sort of social change and the community along with bringing in experts who can help us dissect some of our own beliefs. I think that that creates more of a holistic approach so that the whole human is being addressed, not just this like physical part, if that makes sense. I know that was a lot, but [DR. CRISTINA] No, that's great. I think that's wonderful. I know that's very, it's probably very disheartening for people to just push you aside and not believe in you, but I think it's very courageous at the same time to keep moving and going forward and despite the naysayers to like really have this vision and want to move forward because it's so needed and it's, everything you're promoting is true and it's honest. If we're talking about, I hate to use the word "healthy," but it really is what is healthy for people psychologically, emotionally, and even physically. All these, I was just reading an article the other day about how all these really crazy hard workouts are actually quite the opposite for the body. They're really doing a lot of damage and causing a lot of injuries and over exercising is very detrimental to the body. It's actually people want to be "healthy," but it's the pursuit of weight loss. That's triggering for anyone but I am saying that in the sense of like, it's not helping you, it's not helping the body to be physically healthy or well. [KATIE] Yeah, and I think what you're saying and what we're trying to do is redefine what the word healthy means. We had a belief system that if we're adhering to a diet or adhering to a number on a scale or adhering to a workout plan, that that was "healthy." What I'm trying to say is, given my experience in working with thousands of clients, it's not and there is a better way that that actually examines, okay, if we really have the physical best interest of a human being in in mind, what does that workout program look like? Okay, if we have the emotional wellbeing and the best interest of the human behind the product, what does that look like? So it's evaluating it through a different lens. And I unfortunately can attest to the idea that the lens that the traditional fitness industry looks through it as through the lens of profit. So I'm trying to look at it through the lens of what's best for the world, what's best for the human being using the product and joining our community. That might not be sexy for an investor, but I'm still here and I'm still going. The people who join our community thank me all the time, and honestly, it's their stories and it's watching them become liberated from this toxic cycle that keeps me going. It's like watching women. I had this one woman on, she's 70 years old, and she said, "I never knew I was allowed to love myself. I was always criticized for my body." She goes, "I've been doing your workouts and coming to the community calls and like, I haven't even cared about the scale. I just feel better in my body. I don't care what my body looks like. I just feel so good and I just love that I have permission to look at myself in a new way. And like, I've never felt more connected with myself and I've never really cared less about what other people think." It's those stories that make me go, yes, this is the right path. This is what's cultivating that feeling inside that I was missing from before. [DR. CRISTINA] That is amazing. I mean, and that's it right there. For anyone listening, like that's it. Because everyone's trying so hard to white-knuckle it to get to that level of like loving yourself, being connected with yourself and it's going about it in the wrong way. And I love what you're doing and I'm sure people listening are, okay, so how do we get connected here? How do people find you, Katie? How do they get connected with your community? [KATIE] So you can just go to We have people take a quiz so that we better understand like what their physical needs are. We ask them sort of what their goals are. I like to warn people that we do ask in our current quiz, like, if your goal is weight loss. I do that not because I'm going to help them facilitate that, but because if that answer isn't on there, a lot of people won't proceed forward. So it's like a lot of people are going to come to, I always say this like a lot of people come to us with that in mind and then I go, surprise, you joined a different program. So I want to be able to have the people who still believe that that's the way, like have an opportunity to be exposed to a different way, if that makes sense. So don't be deterred by the quiz. If one of the questions is, are you here for weight loss, you can say yes or no. We have many options as to why you're here but I have that in there because I was noticing if I didn't have that in there, I wasn't giving people an opportunity who believed that was the way to be exposed to something else. So you go to, learn a little bit about your body so we can get you in the best workout program. Then once you're a part of the program, you log in, you can do a workout whenever you want, and then we have daily community calls where you can join and ask questions to our head coaches if you're having pain, connect with community. We also are going to be launching a podcast discussion group once a week where we can have a guest expert on and then we can have a discussion together in our community about what that episode felt like for everyone else. So it's just a great way to start unwinding some of the belief systems we have, find connection in community that's on a different path and participate in a workout program that's not centered around crazy exercises or burning calories or weight loss. It's centered around connecting with your body. Like the first five minutes of our workouts are learning how to breathe deep belly breaths. Like this is, people think that they have to sweat and almost throw up in order to be "healthy" and I'm telling you, it's doing way more damage in the long run. So we have developed an exercise product that is rooted in exercise science and what is best for the human being using the product. So yeah, you can just check us out at We're on all social media platforms. We have two different social handles, one is just at WeShape, which is just all movement based content and then we have, WeShape Podcast, which talks a lot about like, some of these belief systems and messages from toxic weight loss culture. [DR. CRISTINA] That's fantastic. Thank you so much. I'm sure people will be headed on over there. So any last final words before we end? [KATIE] I think that's everything. I'm so grateful to be given this platform and to have an opportunity just to share this journey and this mission, and I hope it resonates with your followers. [DR. CRISTINA] Oh, absolutely. Thank you so very much. [KATIE] Thank you. [DR. CRISTINA] This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or any other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.