Does the way that you see yourself make it difficult for you to let go of parts of your personality? How does clinical hypnotherapy break the negative perception? How can it be beneficial to someone recovering from an eating disorder? In this podcast episode, Dr. Cristina Castagnini speaks about Clinical Hypnotherapy with Bonnie Killip.


Bonnie is a passionate and lavishly energetic health and nutrition expert and professional mind trainer from the east coast of Australia. She is the Founder and Owner of Fuelling Success, a therapy and wellness practice. The cornerstones of Fuelling Success are functional nutrition and using your mind in new and different ways. Bonnie uses these as the catalysts to achieving meaningful life change in areas as diverse as health, business, career, and relationships. Bonnie studied and continues to study biomedical science, nutrition and dietetics, neurobiology, clinical and medical hypnotherapy, neurolinguistic programming, and success coaching with some of the best in the world. Visit the Fuelling Success website and connect with Bonnie on Facebook and Instagram.


  • How do you think about yourself?
  • Clinical hypnotherapy
  • Find what works for you

How do you think about yourself?

Who would you have to be to be the person who eats normally? Who would you have to be to be the person who leaves that relationship? Who would you have to be to be the person who takes care of themselves? (Bonnie Killip)
The ideas that we have about ourselves can keep us stuck in old patterns. They keep us repeating negative cycles that we want to unburden ourselves from, and it can feel impossible to create meaningful change when we feel stagnant. Changing how you perceive yourself unlocks your unnoticed potential and capabilities. Something like clinical hypnotherapy is a tool that you can use to unlock this door because it enables you to truly see yourself differently.

Clinical hypnotherapy

The first thing [I would say to someone nervous about clinical hypnotherapy] would be are you in control of your mind now? With the eating disorder, are you in control? (Bonnie Killip)
Some people are nervous about being involved in clinical hypnotherapy because they do not like the idea of being “controlled” by someone other than themselves. The first question that Bonnie would ask them is do they feel that they are in control of their mind in this current moment?
For me, clinical hypnotherapy was probably the most respectable, empowering thing that I have ever learned in my life in that it really taught me how to understand how human beings work … it [taught] me exactly how my mind was working. (Bonnie Killip)

Find what works for you

Observe your own experience. Be honest with yourself and notice what genuinely makes you feel better and what does not. Use your experience as data to analyze which course of action is best for you and your recovery. What works for you does not have to be what works for someone else. Commitment to your recovery is a commitment to learning about yourself, and how you can take responsibility and care for your needs as much as possible.



I am a licensed Psychologist and Certified Eating Disorder Specialist. While I may have over 20 years of clinical experience, what I also have is the experience of having been a patient who had an eating disorder as well. One thing that I never had during all of my treatment was someone who could look me in the eye and honestly say to me "hey, I've been there. I understand". Going through treatment for an eating disorder is one of the hardest and scariest things to do. I remember being asked to do things that scared me. Things I now know ultimately helped me to get better. But, at the time, I had serious doubts and fears about it. If even one of my providers had been able to tell me "I know it's scary, but I had to go through that part too. Here's what will probably happen...." then perhaps I would not have gone in and out of treatment so many times. My own experience ultimately led me to specialize in treating eating disorders. I wanted to be the therapist I never had; the one who "got it". I will be giving you my perspective and information as an expert and clinician who has been treating patients for over 2 decades. But don't just take my word for it...keep listening to hear the truly informative insights and knowledge guest experts have to share. I am so happy you are here!


Did you enjoy this podcast? Feel free to comment below and share this podcast on social media! You can also leave a review of Behind The Bite on Apple Podcasts (previously) iTunes and subscribe!

Podcast Transcription

[CRISTINA CASTAGNINI] Behind The Bite podcast is part of a network of podcasts that are good for the world. Check out podcasts like the Full of Shift podcast, After the First Marriage podcast and Eating Recovery Academy over at Welcome to Behind The Bite podcast. This podcast is about the real life struggles women face with food, body image and weight. We're here to help you inspire and create better healthier lives. Welcome. So hello everyone. Welcome back to the show. Throughout my life, I've often encountered people who've come to me, curious to know my thoughts about some alternative treatments for their illnesses, treatments that others have claimed have helped them, but certainly aren't what most would consider mainstream or possibly even realistic. To be honest, despite my years spent in academia studying, researching, and training to be a psychologist, I am quite curious about alternative modes of healing and always am open to finding out more. So I'm truly excited for this show today because I know so little about the topic our guest is going to discuss with us. So my curiosity is actually very peaked. I actually want to know more, find out more, and I was quite excited to connect with this guest because she not only has her own history with an eating disorder, but also has her own experience with one of those alternative treatments, clinical hypnotherapy. [CRISTINA] What I love about her is that she's one of those people who I would have never imagined would be here talking about this treatment. She comes from a very scientific background where if something could not be researched and proven then it had no validity. Bonnie Killip is a passionate and lavishly, energetic, biomedical scientist, and clinical hypnotherapist, and NLP practitioner. She assists people who are feeling stuck or living to less than they know they could be to gain a greater understanding of their minds and control over their lives all while experiencing more freedom, ease and joy. All right, welcome to the show. [BONNIE KILLIP] Thanks for having me, CRISTINA. [CRISTINA] All right. So you provide a really interesting treatment that I know a lot of people might kind of, well, my goodness, I don't know if I would like to take the on. So I'm actually curious, would you mind sharing with us a little bit about how you even got started with this or your own experience with it just to begin with? [BONNIE] Yes. So the treatment that I assume yourself you about is clinical hypnotherapy and also neurolinguistic programming, which I guess both of those things are a little bit unusual. And I guess the reason why I myself got started with them and even learned about them in the beginning is because of my journey with attempting to recover from anorexia nervosa and finally giving hypnotherapy a shot, had never even come up as a consideration prior to that. In the 15 years that I had been trying to recover, it wasn't one of the therapies that was ever offered or promoted, or even given as a side glance of, Hey, why don't you give this a crack? But I did in the end, after hospital, after one of my discharges from hospital. I was given a newspaper clipping of a lady who had recovered from anorexia nervosa. In that article, it mentioned that she'd seen a clinical hypnotherapist and a neurolinguistics programming practitioner. I didn't know what neurolinguistics programming was at that time. So NLP is what people usually call it. And even that, I mean, I haven't heard of that, but it's a bit more common now maybe. Anyway, it mentioned that she'd gone and seen someone who practiced in both of those modalities and through doing that, she had totally recovered eventually. It does still take time, but got through her eating problem, which was the same diagnosis as mine, anorexia nervosa, which probably up until that point, and particularly after that hospitalization experience, I think I did have a lot of doubt that it was possible to actually recover, let alone fully recover. I'm not sure that I, I don't think, I mean, there must have been in hindsight, like a part of me that believed because I was continuing to attempt to do all these different therapies and modalities and things to recover. But if I think about it, I was more, even that I wanted to show that I was attempting to recover. I don't think a lot of me believed that it was possible. So yes, when I got in contact with her, she actually gave me the name of the therapist that she saw and I went and saw the same person. Also I went to some recovery groups that this woman who had spoke about in the newspaper had, was running. So she was running little support recovery groups where men and women with disorders come along and we'd kind of just talk and do things. There was people in that also who had recovered and they were also just involved in the group. That I think was an experience that did really change things for me, is that I still remember on the first night that I went there leaving that, and I just sat in my car and I just cried my eyes out because I just had like these people who were there were so beautiful and so wonderful and such amazing human beings and they just couldn't see it themselves at all. I think that maybe was the beginning of sort of opening up to me. It makes me like [crosstalk] But I think it like opened up to me the possibility that maybe I was also an okay human being and that maybe I also was behaving and acting in ways that were lower than what I was actually were. Like maybe my belief that my self-worth was so low and that I wasn't good enough and all those sort of things. I have to say it like classic things that people with eating disorders believe about themselves. It opened up just that little bit of, I guess, doubt that if these people also thought that when also doing these totally ridiculous, weird, bizarre things with food in their life, to be honest. It's not just food with an eating disorder, but it opened up that possibility to me that if they were doing this and also believed that they weren't worthy and weren't good enough and all of that. And I could clearly think that they were worthy and they were good enough and they were deserving of a better life and treating themselves well. Not the possibility for me that maybe I was also misguided or had some way wrong. And yes, like I think those two in combinations. Probably what's started to maybe make little cracks in the definite and the rigidity and the certainty I had in the, I was broken and I was wrong and I was fixable. And I was just like inherently, this was the way that I was, and it was always going to be a battle. It was always going to to be a fight to be anything outside of that. Because up until that point, I have to be honest, like my experience with recovery, I would've said for those 15 years that I was in recovery, I never just referred to myself as having an eating disorder. I was always in recovery from an eating disorder. So I always thought of stuff with actively and proactively trying to change things and trying to get over this. But my experience with what that meant to me I suppose, was that I was always actively and trying my hard out to gain weight. That was about it. Like my emotional state was so below capacity. Thinking about it now, I was just so easily overwhelmed, so easily emotionally flooded, so unable to emotionally regulate, so unable to, I guess feel like an adult human being. That I think to me, it wasn't even possible really to be able to do any of that. I tried CBT and that more conscious level talk therapy that in my life now is super fun and super great and super useful. It's so wonderful and I love therapy and I love those sorts of things. But at that time, with where I was, was so far below being able to use that more conscious, logical, rational prefrontal cortex part of my brain, that those therapies and those modalities, I don't think were ever going to work for me to get me to a level that that was out of that, I guess. Oh, stuckness. Yes, just being stuck. So that's where clinically the therapy works. The unconscious part of our brain is the term we use in the language is unconscious mind, but it's quite different and distinct from how unconscious mind is often used by like, and things like that. It's more referring to our autonomic nervous system. So all of the things that we do outside of our control, including our heart beat, including our breathing, including how we eat. Most people and really all people are just eating and doing most of our behaviors, unconsciously and automatically and habitually. We're not generally putting a lot of conscious thought or a lot of conscious effort into eating or why we're doing what we're doing. We're just doing it. So it helped me to be able to understand those processes that were going on behind the scenes, in the background and now be able to take that next step or what would I like to be happening instead. [CRISTINA] It's so interesting. So you were considering, oh, this whole 15 years of I'm in recovery, instead of I'm still sick, even though you just mentioned, like you had just come out of the hospital right before you read that article. So at what point did you consider I'm sick? What did that look like? [BONNIE] So to be honest, I was definitely one of those people looking back, like there's a lot of insights and a lot of understandings you can have looking back, but there's not a lot of insights and understanding. Well, there is like, it wasn't as though I didn't have epiphany, I didn't have insight and I didn't have understanding. I did, but I wasn't able to use it in any kind of proactive, long-term, you know anything that stuck. So at what point did I consider myself sick? Honestly, only now that I'm better, only now looking back I can go, "Holy crap." I would be like, if I had those problems, why had any of those problems I had back then, the low temperature, the low heart rate, the low weight, all the hard problems that came with it, all of those things. If I had any of that, now I'd be like, well, I'm taking the day off. I'm taking the month off. I'm taking the year off work. I'd be telling everyone, you have to like, leave me alone. Let me de-stress, let me lie down, let me do all these things and I'd be doing it until I could get back to a level of help. But when I was going through all those things, even that hospitalization experience that I'm talking about that was even against my will. And I was so sick and so horrible. Like there was a lot of me that wanted the help. I wanted the help, but I had hospitalization experiences and I knew that the help that I needed wasn't found there, but I didn't know where else to go. So I ended up back in hospital again and again and again and again. I'd even go to doctors and GPs like myself. I was doing it and I was proactive in it, but part of me always knew that this, I'd already tried this. I'd already done this. It wasn't really going to would stop me or prevent me from ending up back in hospital. But I'd kind of go again because I knew within myself that, oh, I'm going to do this again. I can feel, and I need help to stop. But I'd go on to doctors, I'd get the blood tests, I'd get all the things that would show that yes, medically I'm stable, unwell or this. So it would be your choices back in hospital. So go back to hospital and then after the hospital, well now what? You're on your own? There was no further plan. There was never like this discharge plan, continuous care. Here's the areas that you probably need to work on to not come back to hospital. It was all very acute care, was all very, we need you to stay alive in this moment and this here and now. And beyond that, there is a big gap. I don't know what it's like over there, but in Australia, there is quite a big gap between that medical admission and then what? You are back in the community, back in the same environment that you're eating disorder sort of thrive in. You're straight back into all of that. There is options of course, out there, but as I said, they're not always the ones that are promoted. Like the clinic, no one ever suggested that that could be an area that I could try. So we're often presented with here. This is your next step and it doesn't work and then we're lost and floundering again because we then just don't believe in the system and we believe even less in ourselves and you're even more of a failure and you can't go back and ask for help again, because then you're a disaster. So it was like that for those years, for me, really in that it was very acute fix up care. It was, well, you just need to kind of eat now and get past this stage. And I would, I was very compliant. I was probably the best patient out there. I would eat now and put on the weight and I would gain the weight and I would be this fantastic, magical BMI where everything was supposed to change and my brain was supposed to just switch and tear back more and I was going to be healed. And I was then going to be able to eat normally, live life normally, but that never actually happened. This is most of the experience of the people that I work with. To a degree, yes, it's undeniable. I'm also a dietician and nutritionist. So it is undeniable that, that food and that weight gain really does help our brains. A well-fed human being is always going to be able to do a lot more than a starving human being, undeniable. But it doesn't do all of the work and there is that kind of missing gap of how does someone transition from, "Hey, I have this brain that is probably now in a position to do this work. What is the work? What is this work I'm ready to do? How do I start? Where do I begin. If we don't have those kind of clear steps, we find this in all the health problems and health issues really, is that we don't have those clear steps of, this is what I do. We end up doing nothing, because it's too overwhelming. There's too much conflicting information and advice of things out there, which is why hypnotherapy really brought it back to like kind of separating from me from other human beings and from other paths that other people had taken. Because a lot of my recovery had been very focused on other people, very focused on copying other people, very focused on reading information, very focused on just analyzing the end degree, trying to figure it out, trying to get it right in this exhausting way that hypnotherapy was letting all of that go and actually feeling that sense of being able to let go of that sense of freedom and sense of what if and that sense of, I guess, curiosity and openness to the experience before I had the understanding or before I had the knowledge and getting that knowledge and understanding on the other side, versus trying to get all the knowledge and understanding, before I had made the change, before I'd done the things and then make the change. So it gave me the ability to have the experience and then just kind of decide, was it something I wanted to continue with? Was it something I wanted to keep? Was it worth it to me? Because I know a lot of the time in eating disorder recovery, like when people really commit to recovery and if they fully have that, like I said, I didn't really have that belief that it was possible, but if someone totally believed that it was possible that they could recover and that they could move into this awesome life and feel well and happy and connected with them themselves, they would do it. We would all do it. But you don't know that. Nobody knows that. Nobody really feels that that's true and everyone in the world can be saying, it's true. Every person who's coming from an eating disorder, I don't think that there's anyone that says, "Well, it wasn't worth it and I wish that I stayed sick." So bummed that. I put that work into recovery. [CRISTINA] So it's interesting, couple things I want to kind of go back to. So you had mentioned, you were such a great patient. You were the best patient, typical eating disorder patient, like a perfectionist. So you were following the meal plan, you were doing all that, but I think that is a misperception too. Maybe, I don't know if you have that experience, but people think that's recovered, like that's, when it's over, that's when you are successful, that's when it's, you can move on with your life, is like you're eating according to what you're supposed to and the behavior, it's all just a behavior. And as long as that's done, then the eating disorder's gone and it's not, that's just the tip of the iceberg. It's like just making sure you can stay alive and your biological being is being fed and not going to die. There's so much more to it. Like you did that part. Great. [BONNIE] I did that part. I've lost countless amount of time I did that quite grade, went straight back to hospital few months, few years, whatever amount of time after. [CRISTINA] So it sounds like something shifted though. Like when you started the clinical hypnotherapy, I'm wondering what happens in clinical hypnotherapy that gets you to the point of going from like keeping your biological being alive and doing well with that to, okay, now there's a shift and now you go from relapsing and going back into hospital to, okay, now I'm on my path to the eating disorder going away and I'm no longer ill and I'm recovered. Like what happens actually? [BONNIE] It's so hard to pinpoint, isn't it? Because it's a journey and it's a process. I don't think there was a single session when I went to long-term, I was like, well, walked out there all better and fixed and cured. Honestly, I think my highest hopes when I went in there was like, if this person can somehow magically control my mind and make me want to eat, that would be my highest dream and goal. That was honestly what I thought. Other than that, I didn't really believe. I was one of those people who was very science background by medical scientists, dietician working in the hospitals and did not believe in, hadn't even heard it to be honest but hypnosis, I was like, that can happen. But I think what, as I said, like there was multiple things that actually led to it changing. And I think a lot of it was those progressions. Like I actually got the feedback in my outside world and I started to feel more secure within myself and started to, like some of the things, for example, are those things that we try and do and try and create logically, consciously like set boundaries. We all know setting boundaries is good. We all know living to our values is good. We all know all these things are good for us, but hypnosis really allowed me that here's how you actually do that. Here's how that would actually feel. Here's how that would actually fit in with your life. Here's how you can actually use that now to make your life better. So it kind of gives you the experience of healing having happened before that healing has actually happened. So it's kind of like a test drive of your life, which we don't really get to do in day to day life. We have to make decisions and we have to make choices. And we don't know if that decision or choice is going to make our life better or worse. Particularly with an eating disorder, feels like the eating will make your life worse. It feels that way, even if consciously and logically you know it's not that way, still feels that way. That's, I guess the distinction and for me the power, well, most of the power is probably what makes it unique because it works with that feeling. It works with that side of us that feels different to what we know and what we think and the information that we have. It works with the feeling part of us so that we can start to feel in line with what we think and what we feel and what we know. So we don't just go, yes, I know I'm a pretty decent human being. I've never actually have tried to hurt anyone. I've never done anything particularly bad or wrong in my life and yet I feel really unworthy. I feel as though I'm not worthy of a decent relationship. I feel as though I shouldn't speak in public. I feel as though I can't say no to anyone. I feel all these things, but I actually know that if I was giving advice to someone else in my position, I wouldn't be giving the advice that I'm doing in my life. So it really allowed me, and it does allow people to have an experience of how their life could be otherwise. Because even if anyone's listening to this thinks what is it that stands in the way of you simply taking good advice? What is it that stands in the way of human being taking good advice? It's that feeling part of us really. It's what we feel about that advice. We can go, yes, I know I should do this. I know I should do that. I know I should, whatever it is. I know I should eat healthy. I know I should take care of myself. I know I should say no to that toxic person in my life. I know I should, whatever, but we don't really do those things until we feel that it's ok to do those things. [CRISTINA] The fear takes over, it sounds like. [BONNIE] Yes, we just default back to what we've always done. We just default back to that habit. If we don't default back to that habit, it feels really wrong and it feels really uncomfortable and it doesn't feel like us. Often when I have sessions with people, I'll say, well, who would you have to be to be the person who just eats normally? Who would you have to be to be the person who leaves that relationship? Who would you have to be to be the person who takes care of themselves? Then sometimes people are saying, well, I'd have to be a completely different person. I have to feel a completely different way, is essentially what they're saying. [CRISTINA] So was that, when you're describing, is that part of what you experienced when you went through clinical hypnotherapy yourself? [BONNIE] Yes. So a lot of my life and a lot of my eating disorder was tied into pleasing other people, was very tied into perfectionism and exceedingly high standards and all of that stuff, which didn't actually particularly make me probably succeed as high as I would've, if I didn't do any disorder, if I didn't do all those things, interestingly enough. But that's where that intention is different to the actual behaviors. So with an eating disorder, even the intention of any disorder is positive. It is positive. What it's trying to achieve and what it's trying to do for us is positive. It's just not what's happening out there in reality. It's just not what those behaviors are actually doing. They might be very momentarily decreasing our anxiety, making us feel a little less depressed, making us feel a little more connected or a little bit more in control or whatever it may be that we're striving for at an unconscious level. We don't know that we're striving for these things. Most of the time you have to do a fair bit of work probably to get to the understanding that we are striving to meet these underlying human needs in the same way that we have needs for water and food and air. We have needs for connection. We have needs for love. We have needs for growth. We have need for certainty, we have need for uncertainty. We have needs within us. So I completely went off track again., [CRISTINA] Yes, but you speak the truth. I think that's, what's missing with, that eating disorder is we're coping and using food. Like at least, when I had my eating disorder, I was using food and the behaviors and the rituals and the routines and it was substituting for other things that were missing. And because I was engaged so much in the illness, I couldn't even fit those things in. I was connecting with food and exercise and the rituals, the routines, more so than people, anything else, even myself. So I think that's very true because what it really comes down to is what is it you're really seeking. It's not really another hour at the gym or counting calories or doing any of that. It's something else. There's something deeper than that. Something else that's hurting. [BONNIE] Yes. You and that's spot on. You're right that was in a nutshell. I was trying to say that underlying intention is also positive. And once we can kind of recognize that and I guess with any eating disorder, there is a lot of that warrior mentality and that battle and that fight. It's kind of, it's, I don't know if I should say this, but it's even looked as probably as a positive thing or a bit of a trying thing that you're trying so hard and you're battling and you're awesome for trying so hard when it's so hard. And I think that takes away from, we're not actually battling within ourselves to recover from eating disorder. It's more welcoming those parts of us to the conversation, welcoming those parts of us to the table and going, "Hey look, what is it that you actually want for me?" Because we find out that those parts are not actually horrible, massive monsters. Then usually little scared child parts of us who don't know how else to behave and how else to cope in the world. Because they just want to feel loved and they want to feel protected and they want to feel like they belong. [CRISTINA] So I wonder if people listening might hear a clinical therapy and think, okay, that sounds scary. It sounds like someone's going to control my mind. They're going to put me out and I'm going to be completely at the whim of like, say you. For instance, if you were their clinical hypnotherapist, what would you say to somebody who is wondering about that or scared to even try it? [BONNIE] First of all, I'd say, I thought the same thing. Of course, I went in pretty, part of me wanted to do it, but a part me was also pretty reluctant because I didn't want to be under the control of someone else. I was a very controlling person. In hindsight, didn't know it at the time, but in hindsight I can see that, yes, it was my my eating disorder, as I said, was tied into trying to control things and that control isn't a bad thing. But it's trying to control things that you can't control things that are of your control that's just you're never going to have a happy, healthy life. So probably the first thing that I would say and ask someone who does feel that way and does have a bit of that fear and hesitation or reluctance towards trying something like clinical chemotherapy, because they have an understanding or have a thought that it might be someone else's taking control of their mind or making them do things that they don't want to do. There's probably a few things that I'd say. The first one would be are you in control of your mind now? With the eating disorder are you in control? If you want to have, you know and it's something that, the example that you gave the other day actually about if you want to have a piece of cake or a cookie now, could you? And look, most people with eating disorder could, they could make themselves have that cake or have that cookie. But what's your first feeling when someone says that or if someone offers you some piece of food? What's your first feeling that comes up? What's your first response to that? Is it just this immediate fear? Panic? I want to check it on the floor and run? So that's what it was like for me. I remember multiple mornings of post another hospital discharge. My mom would make me breakfast or sometimes it would be, my partner would make me breakfast and I'd just want to smash it on the ground and run, but I could sit there and I could say, thank you. And I could smile and I could be wonderful and eat through it and talk through it. I could do, but it never felt ok. It never felt good. So that's the thing about when I ask, are you in control? If you're worried about someone else being in control of your mind, are you actually in control of your own mind now? For me, clinical hypnotherapy was probably the most respectful empowering thing that I've ever learnt in my entire life in that it really taught me how to understand, first of all, understand how a human being works, not even how I work, but how human being works. So kind of it personalized, it made me learn that this is just how mind works. Then secondly, it really did teach me exactly how my mind was working. Then the next step was, as I said in the beginning, like, well, how would you rather your mind work? What response would you rather when someone makes you this beautiful breakfast or would you rather feel? Because I can tell you that I didn't want to feel panic and I didn't want to feel like I wanted to punch them. I wanted to feel like that, I wanted to feel the way that I spoke and the way that I acted. I wanted to feel the way that I wanted to feel when I said thank you. I wanted to feel that I actually felt, thank you, not that I'd rather, as I said, punch them. So that leads to that question, are you in control now? But also my second point that I have to make is when I lived with an eating disorder, I was very caught up in other people, very caught up in, I thought everyone had the eating disorder. I wanted to heal the world of being disorders. It was very important to me. Honestly, and this might sound harsh, but I really care all that much, if you change, or if you don't change, it's not on me. It's not to my call to make. So I'm not here to make you do things you don't want to do. I'm not here to change your mind. I'm not here to be in control of your mind and make you do things that I want you to do, but you don't want to do. I need to help you do the things that you want to do. My life is already amazing and fantastic and with where I am, I know that it can just get better and better and better and better. Of course there is always hard things. There is always going to be really tough things in my life. I know that and just been through one actually, really tough part breaking break up. And there will always be those experiences, my life that are hard but I know overall that I am capable of getting through those. I know overall that I have my own back because in the past if I had gone through a breakup that would've been a hospital. That would've been one, two years out of my life, where I was unable to do anything really. And I'm able to get myself out of that. Now, it still hurts now in a month a bit more, but I know that through all of that, I still looked after myself. I still had my back and it wasn't a battle and it wasn't an effort with myself. It didn't always feel happy and enjoyable to do those things, but I still could do it. And I think that's a lot of the difference between an eating disorder, between living happy and healthy and well, and experiencing hard things in your life. But either way, you're going to experience hard things in your life. But when you have other ways of coping and legitimate, other ways of coping, not the run and not the gym or not anything other than being able to use your mind I think to get yourself out of that. Like not all the distraction things. I think they're short term, but they're not a long term solution to just distract yourself with work or with a new dog or with a new partner or within these sorts of things. So yes, it's coming back to helping you to do the things that you want to do. It's really what hypnosis is in a nutshell. But I guess there is, hypnosis is one of those things that's not hugely regulated to be honest. The governing bodies, I'm not sure of those names of them in America, but there's like two main ones in Australia. So in order to be a therapist licensed with those governing bodies, you do have to do those 40 hours of CPD a year and you do have to do them twice a month. What's it called? Not mentorship, but like, oh, supervision, and you do have to do all this behind the scenes stuff just as you do to be a psychologist, psychiatrist, and a dietician and all of those other professions. So if you're asking for therapist, look for someone who's a part of those so that they are practicing something that's credible because it is a quite, it's a modality that I can see could have a lot of potential when, maybe not going the best it could go if someone's just getting given it a crack. But even then I think it's better to have given it a go than to have not. But yes, look for someone who has some credentials and particularly like, preferably someone who all has some kind of health background who also has secondary education in some kind of a health field, like psychology, psychiatry. There's lots of psychologists and psychiatrists who do hypnotherapy, like someone who's a dietician, occupational therapist, any of those things. [CRISTINA] And I think it speaks volumes that you were so scientifically minded and this would not have been something you thought at all would be something you'd lean toward. So from having your own experience and now providing it to help people that does speak volumes. But I do agree with. Yes, I think with whoever you find for treatment, making sure you find somebody that is up to speed on their training and is certified and not just choosing anybody. Then that's just speak for that. But just in general, I think that's wise words. [BONNIE] Yes. And I guess that's also just the massive education background that I come from is that that's something that I always say and promote, but I also can't rule out and can't say that someone who doesn't have that massive education background wouldn't be awesome, wouldn't do a great job and you wouldn't get where you on get. So I think it's really finding the person that listens to you, that goes, okay, what is it that you want? Like that first session that I went along to with that therapist that I'm talking about, I sat there and my mom came along and my mom sat in the room with me and I sat in the corner and could barely make eye contact. I was in late twenties by then, but I was like a scared five year old child. I was, I lost track because I'm imagining that situation. I sat down and she looked at me and she talked to me and even though I was acting so strangely and so clearly bizarrely for growing adult woman, she treated me like a grown adult woman. She treated me above where I felt I was. She asked me, I remember asking, "What is it that you want?" That was those things like turning points because I was on the turning point to recovery. That would be something that I would mark as a turning point is that I don't remember anyone else ever having asked me, what is it that you want? I've gone into all the therapist rooms. I'd gone into all the doctors' appointments to sit down as the person with anorexia and be waited and be measured and have my heart monitored, the ECGs and the blood pressure and all of those things. It was always just assumed that I wanted to be sick, I think, or it was maybe assumed that I wanted to recover, but it was never asked what I wanted. I didn't even know that that was something that I wanted to be asked. She asked me that I was like, whoa, flooded. I don't know what I want. I have no idea. I don't know. That's also common. So you don't have to know what it is that you want in order to change things. You really don't. It is honestly like that, those first steps, like what, that really, you don't have to see the whole staircase but just the fist step. Because years ago I couldn't imagine where I'd be a year from then and a year from then and where I am now and five years now, who knows. And I think going back to having professionalism and credentials and all of that, some of the, so two of the people that neurolinguistic programming was modeled off, so NLP. Also hypnosis. Well, yes, NLP in particular was modeled off man called Milton H Erickson, who was a medical MD. He was a medical doctor and he used to focus with his clients, patients and another lady who was called Virginia who was a family therapist. Both of those modalities kind of, they used them to create NLP. They were like, well, these two therapists are getting really great results of their clients. What are they doing? They were doing quite different things, but one of them was a medical doctor using his hypnotherapy, using clinical hypnotherapy. So I think it doesn't, I know the professionalism and the letters and things before our names give us more credibility. But at the end of the day, it is finding what works for you, because I know I was going down the path of trying this, that, and the other thing. And I gave things a really good shot. It wasn't like I was jumping left front center. I would sometimes go see the same therapist for a good three years longer, same dietician for a good five years longer. And I was one of those people who really stuck with things and really took things on board and really tried. I was always trying, trying, trying, trying, but that was all I was ever doing. I was just trying. So I think it's finding something, when you find, you start to have changes and you start to feel differently, you can't argue with that within yourself. You can't argue with your own experience. So if you're really not getting any changes or results or outcomes with someone maybe that you have been working with for 10 years and you feel as though, well, you can't lead that or you can't switch that up because you've come this far, or maybe even before you leave that, like also try something else on the side. Because you don't know what sort of therapies have come in or advanced since you've been doing that even, but it's finding the thing that's actually legitimately is working for you. That doesn't have to be the thing that worked for your sister, the thing that worked for this other person that you've read a book about, or this other person on Instagram, because we all find different things work for us. [CRISTINA] I know we're just about at time, but I just kind of want to end there because I think if anyone's listening, that is a great spot because you're recovered, I'm recovered and we went through such different paths to get there. And I know one of the biggest myths out there is you can't get the full recovery. I know you had said earlier, just in this recording here, like just having that knowledge and that hope that you can recover is so important. So anyone listening who maybe is five, 10, even 15 or longer into treatment and just not seeking treatment or seeing any results, know that no matter how long you've been at it, you can fully recover. Don't get discouraged. There will be something for you at some point, if you keep at it where you will. Something will happen. But if you have that mindset of, I will always have this and full recovery is not possible, that is also powerful. That has a lot of power in your mind. So just hearing what Bonnie's saying here with know it can happen and holding onto that mindset of trying another avenue or if something's not working, shift it up. That can help. So thank you for saying that. I really think that's just a great message. Now, if anyone does want to connect with you or find out more about all of what you're doing or more about clinical hypnotherapy, how can they find you? [BONNIE] So my website's Fueling Success, which is different spelling in America and Australia. So it's double L, is my spell here, which is how it sell and they can email me also at or Instagram, Fueling_Success. Those are the best places. The website's got a weekly blog that I put out, which is probably the good place to have a read off and see if any of it makes sense to you or connects with you. [CRISTINA] Awesome. If anyone didn't get any of that down, do not worry, that'll be all in the show notes. So if you want to connect with her, just go to the website. All that information will be right there. So thank you so much. I really appreciate all this great information. So fascinating just to hear about a different modality, we just never hear about, so thank you so much. And again, congratulations on your recovery. It's always great to hear from somebody who's been there and understands everything and is now in a space where you've passed all of the pain and now are in such a great spot in your life like you said. So thank you so much. [BONNIE] Thank you so much for having me. It was such a nice chat. [CRISTINA] This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher or the guest are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or any other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.