Why must eating recovery treatment be personalized? How can a flexible treatment program help a client overcome an eating disorder effectively? Why does the scale really not matter at all? In this podcast episode, Dr. Cristina Castagnini speaks about building a strong, adaptive support structure for patients with Gabrielle Alyse.


Gabby Alyse is the Owner and Clinical Director of Recovered & Restored Eating Disorder Therapy Center. Her journey as a clinician began 9 years ago, after receiving her Master's Degree in counseling psychology from Rosemont College. Since then, she has continued her education and received her clinical license, as well as a certificate in cognitive behavioral therapy, dialectical behavioral therapy, and trauma-informed care. She is also fully recovered from anorexia and is honored to take part in her patient's healing journey.

Gabby specializes in helping teens and young women heal from their eating disorders. She works with both teens and women suffering from anorexia, bulimia, orthorexia, and binge eating disorder. She also treats disordered eating, anxiety, depression, and PTSD.

​Visit the Recovered & Restored Eating Disorder Therapy Center and connect with them on Instagram.

Connect with Gabby on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok.


  • Treatment
  • Avoid rigidity
  • It is just gravity


Just like there is no one cause for an eating disorder, we also know there is no one intervention, and everyone deserves individualized care. (Gabrielle Alyse)
Clinicians need to meet clients where they are at instead of only focusing on where their eating disorder is. The therapeutic alliance between clinician and client is crucial to treatment and recovery from disordered eating and must therefore be kept central and maintained throughout treatment.
If you can establish the therapeutic alliance, your clients have a much higher likelihood of getting better because if they trust you, they will try [the] interventions. (Gabrielle Alyse)

Avoid rigidity

Due to the nature of eating disorders and the fact that they represent differently from person to person, one-size-fits-all and rigid treatment programs and methods do not work effectively. Using informed techniques and treatment plans is more effective. The four components of CBT are:
  • mindfulness
  • emotional regulation
  • distress tolerance
  • interpersonal effectiveness
Depending on the needs of the client, clinicians can create a program based on these four cornerstones to center the client’s recovery.

It is just gravity

The number on the scale is just gravity. It has nothing to do with who you are as a person and your value.
A smaller body is not a better body, and it does not lead to a better life because it is really not about our body anyway. (Gabrielle Alyse)
Therapy is a supportive environment where the goal is about healing and not about the timeline. It does not matter how long it takes or where you are currently at because the goal is to get to a place of wellness without discomfort.



I am a licensed Psychologist and Certified Eating Disorder Specialist. While I may have over 20 years of clinical experience, what I also have is the experience of having been a patient who had an eating disorder as well. One thing that I never had during all of my treatment was someone who could look me in the eye and honestly say to me "hey, I've been there. I understand". Going through treatment for an eating disorder is one of the hardest and scariest things to do. I remember being asked to do things that scared me. Things I now know ultimately helped me to get better. But, at the time, I had serious doubts and fears about it. If even one of my providers had been able to tell me "I know it's scary, but I had to go through that part too. Here's what will probably happen...." then perhaps I would not have gone in and out of treatment so many times. My own experience ultimately led me to specialize in treating eating disorders. I wanted to be the therapist I never had; the one who "got it". I will be giving you my perspective and information as an expert and clinician who has been treating patients for over 2 decades. But don't just take my word for it...keep listening to hear the truly informative insights and knowledge guest experts have to share. I am so happy you are here!


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Podcast Transcription

[CRISTINA] Behind The Bite podcast is part of a network of podcasts that are good for the world. Check out podcasts like the Full of Shift podcast, After the First Marriage podcast and Eating Recovery Academy over at practiceofthepractice.com/network. Welcome to Behind The Bite podcast. This podcast is about the real life struggles women face with food, body image and weight. We're here to help you inspire and create better healthier lives. Welcome. Well, hello everyone. It's the start of the new year and I think it's always full of messages about inspiration and starting fresh and having resolutions. While in general, I find that these are all really great and wonderful things, if you heard my podcast last week how I feel about most of the ads that out around this time. And whenever these messages, which again, I think are wonderful, are paired with diets and weight loss, and we're all being bombarded with them, then that is not something I find to be a good thing, like not at all. So I want to send a different kind of inspiring message of my own at the start of this new year. So what a better way to do that than to have on a guest who is here to share with you her own personal story with her eating disorder and discuss how that helped inspire her to create a life where she is now able to help others overcome their own eating disorders. Gabby is a licensed professional counselor in the state of Pennsylvania and New Jersey. She specializes in treating eating and anxiety disorders. She's a personal survivor of a 17-year battle with anorexia nervosa and a haze provider and business owner. She feels honored to do the work she does every day. She's also a dog mom and has a niece who are the loves of her life. Gabby, welcome to the show. [GABBY ALYSE] Thank you for having me. [CRISTINA] So you have a history of an eating disorder as well. I'm just curious, would you mind sharing a little about that yourself? [GABBY] Sure. So my eating disorder started when I was really young. I was like 10 when I first remember actively restricting and it went on for a fairly long time until I was around the age of 27. But it morphed into many different things as eating disorders do and at my worst, I really suffered with anorexia pretty severely and that kind of stayed with me throughout most of my young adulthood. Here and there, I would say it maybe wasn't as severe as other times, which is good, but I really did not fully recover until I was in my later twenties. And I'm so glad that I did. [CRISTINA] So for you, I mean, 10 is really young and I know that that's not that uncommon actually, but did you realize it was an eating disorder so young or did it take you some years to really figure out like, okay, this is something that is an illness and I need help? [GABBY] Yes, I actually did. That's like such a good question. I don't know that I've ever been asked that. Yes, I did know because I knew what anorexia was because unfortunately in the nineties, which is when I was 10 to date myself it was kind of glamorized. So I did know what it was. I remember watching a special on TV about it and seeing the person like significantly lose weight and I was like, it worked for them. Now, I don't think I knew like, oh, I have anorexia at 10, but I knew if I did not eat a certain amount of food or if I ate less or if I took food out of my diet or things like that, I knew that that would lead to weight loss. I was pretty determined to lose weight, which was really sad because there was a lot of influences in my life that were unfortunately telling me that's what I needed to do. [CRISTINA] It sounds like the perfect storm for you. And this is what I think people need to hear is like, there's not one thing that leads to you having an eating disorder. So someone could point like, oh it's because you watch that special, put it in your mind. But it's like, all this other stuff was going on too, had to be like a mix of all these things going on when you saw that. [GABBY] Absolutely. I think that just like reinforced what I already knew. [CRISTINA] How sad, because I'm sure that special was for, I'm assuming, I hope the intention was so that people would learn about anorexia and not want to do it, but yes. And as having had my own eating disorder, I know I had this, I had similar reactions to things like I hear about people doing certain things and I go, oh, I want to go do that rather than what I would hope would be the reaction to no, I never want to do that. [GABBY] Yes, yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Yes, it was definitely the intention to inform, but I was very young and impressionable and, yes, there was just so many other outside influences also telling me to do similar things sadly. [CRISTINA] And really the ultimate message is this is what you need to do to lose weight versus like hopefully the other messages you didn't hear were this is going to kill you or this could have all these horrible effects on your body or in your life. All those messages were somehow just not heard. [GABBY] Yes, they were crossed over or the focus, unfortunately, because I was in a bigger body, as a child was on that my body needed to change, but my body didn't need to change at all. Anyone who's listening, if you aren't a bigger body, your body is amazing. Your body is incredible and all bodies are absolutely good bodies. [CRISTINA] I wish that message was out there more because I still think we are existing in this toxic culture that perpetuates all of this. Talking about this, this cusp of the new year, this has been the topic of discussion like all these giants and things out there really pressuring people to change their bodies and have a new you and lose weight. So it's still out there even though you're talking about the nineties. It's still here. Not much has changed. Changing a little bit, but, you know I was wondering going from 10 to 27 I know things kind of ebbed and flowed for your eating disorder, but what finally got you to the point where you're like, okay, this, well, what got you to recovery, I guess? [GABBY] I think again, many different things, but I know for myself I was just sick of it. I was so sick of it and I had definitely gone through periods of that throughout mostly my twenties where I would really try to get better, but I still really struggled or things like that. But I was so sick of it. I also really wanted, I knew that I wanted to have a family in the future and I was at a point of if you continue doing this, that is going to be off the table. So I really had to just put on my big girl pants and get it together and I really, really worked hard at my recovery. I also will say my husband around that time, and he knows this now, but I don't think he knew at the time what he was doing, but he was the very first person in my life to consistently meet me with kindness during my disorder. Not to say that people were intentionally unkind, but having a loved one who has an eating disorder is frustrating for sure. And I empathize with those who have loved ones as well, but imagine what the person suffering, is going through. So there were times where people were very supportive and kind, but there were also times where they were furious. That didn't help. So he consistently met me with kindness and that just really, I think made me believe that I was worthy of recovery, which everyone is, and it's very, very possible. [CRISTINA] I love when you say that. So for anyone who maybe doesn't have that experience of someone meeting them with kindness at all during their illness or disorder, what did that look like? What did he do that was so different? [GABBY] He just kept showing up. Even when I just got awful, he just kept showing up. So we met when I was just turning or I had just turned 28 and I really was in a place where I was really pushing towards recovery. I was really, really, really trying, really, but I was still very stuck. He just consistently kept showing up and kept encouraging me and trying to just be there. There were times in the beginning where he wanted to fix it, but I didn't need someone else to fix it. I needed to fix it. I had to put the work in for my healing, but once we kind of really started having really good open communication about it and I was, "No, I don't, I don't need you to really do anything except to just be here through it," he really became really good at that. He also educated himself about health at every size, which I thought was like really cool that he would do that, because not everyone would do that, and just eating disorders in general. So he just, he's a very special person. He really is. I like it. [CRISTINA] That's amazing. So you then, obviously fast forward, you've recovered and you're married, have kids --- [GABBY] No kids yet. [CRISTINA] Oh no kids. Ok, sorry. [GABBY] That's ok. We're working on it [CRISTINA] But that was your goal. You wanted to have a family. So congratulations on recovery, because that is a huge thing, especially after so many years. It's really tough. [GABBY] Right. Thank you. Yes, a healing truly is possible. It was funny because in the podcast that I had shared with you, that I share with people all the time, with Evelyn she said healing is possible and that is one of our like core foundations at our center, that like healing is possible and it truly, truly is. [CRISTINA] I love when I have guests on that perpetuate that because I hate that myth that, oh, nobody can ever fully recover. They're always kind of still sick because that does so many damaging things if you believe that. It kind of gets you to, I think it gets people to stop treatment early and still have lingering symptoms and continually suffer. But it also sets a mindset from the get go of treatment of, okay, I'm only going to get so far. [CRISTINA] That's having that hope like, yes, of course I can have a life without this. You weren't born with this. You can, of course not have all these behaviors and rituals and beliefs and just have all of this ruling in your life. So I'm so glad you said that. Here's yet another example for anyone listening of somebody who's recovered and here to talk about it and yes, even better, you now have a center where you help people who have eating disorders. So I really want to talk more about that too, because that's amazing. I'm wondering how you went from being somebody who was getting treatment to now, somebody who is helping people who have eating disorders. [GABBY] So I received my master's degree from Rosemont College in counseling psychology in 2012, which is a long time ago. Even in the midst of my disorder, I was always very passionate about treating eating disorders. Early in my career I did a lot of community mental health and when cases became available, people would give them to me because I had shared that was an interest and passion of mine. But then once I got licensed, I was really able to hone in on that as like a specialization. I also started to receive supervision from someone who had previous longstanding experience with treating disorders. So that was something that I has kind of dedicated myself to that even during my disorder, because I do believe that even if you're suffering, you can still be a very effective therapist. I think it's okay to struggle. If you are a mental health provider, it's just important that you get your own help. That's really what's important. But so kind of all throughout my career, eating disorders and treating eating disorders was really present. But then once getting licensed in 2016, I really was able to just hone in on that. Then I worked in a few private practices before developing my own where I would say majority of my caseload was eating disorders and now that's pretty much all I do. [CRISTINA] One thing you and I talked about before was, for anyone listening, maybe they're thinking about going into treatment or they've heard about what happens in treatment and even if they go to your website or mine, they might read about like, this is the treatment we offer. And it might sound like Greek. You're like, what is that? It might sound a little scary and intimidating. And I've never actually done a show to talk to listeners about like, what are all of those things that happen in treatment? What do you provide? So that maybe would be great to talk with you a little bit about the different types of treatments you offer and if somebody were to say, come to your center, what can they expect? What would the experience be like? [GABBY] Sure. So first I will say just like there is no one cause for an eating disorder, we also know there's no one intervention. And everyone deserves individualized care because each of us are unique. So I would encourage anyone if you're seeking treatment to make sure that whoever you're working with is really willing to meet you where you're at, not meet your eating disorder where it's at, but to meet you where you are at. So if they were to come to us, we are a relational therapy center, which means at the very core, the most important thing to us is our therapeutic alliance. We know as providers that therapeutic alliance goes way further than any clinical intervention. The treatment outcomes surpass, I think almost everything that I have read has shown that, that if you can establish the therapeutic alliance, your clients have a much higher likelihood of getting better because if they trust you, they will try these interventions I'm going to talk about, or at least think about it because you become a safe person and you cultivate a place of safety. So as a relational therapy center, we really try to get to know our clients on a very personal and special level and like I said, treat each person very uniquely. At our center, we specialize in DBT, CBT, and trauma, but that's not to say that we don't use other interventions because we definitely do. We also use some ERP, we use some act, we definitely like to kind of, again, just meet the client where they're at. We'd be open to expressive arts therapy. I do art therapy all the time. I'm not an art therapist, but I do like to allow clients to be creative, especially if it's promoting to their healing. So for example, if someone came in and they wanted to work with us and we really felt that they were a good fit for us, we'd start with an intake. An intake is probably like a three to four page questionnaire that we're going to go through with you and we're going to do it at your speed. So just like anyone who's been to therapy before, I'm sure you've all been through one of these, so ours though, I created. So it's very, again, unique to us and what we do at Recovered & restored. Also a really cool thing about us at Recovered & Restored is we're all recovered. So we have a really personal connection to what you're going through. So we really, we want to see you through and we are cheering you on all the way. So that's something that's kind of unique about us, but then say someone is like, oh I've heard DBT is really helpful for eating disorders, which it is, however, at our center we use everything is an informed approach. We do not do anything adhere it is absolutely clinically appropriate, which I would say with eating disorders because they are rigid in their pathology, it doesn't make sense to then meet it with a rigid protocol. So we would use a lot of informed type of DBT. So we would use the four main components of mindfulness, emotional regulation, distress tolerance, and interpersonal effectiveness and we kind of pick out the interventions that would make the most sense for that particular client; kind of the same thing with CBT, which is cognitive behavioral therapy, which also ERP, exposure response prevention also falls under CBT as does DBT technically. But we would really work on reframing and things like that, understanding a client's core beliefs. But also we would be mindful not to overuse any of these modalities because again, it's not a one size fits all. But we would definitely work on reframing core beliefs, things like that. And then, say we were to do ACT. We would really do a lot of values work. ACT it really focuses on what you can control,. eating disorders are not all about control, but there is sometimes a control component to it again, different for each person. But that would really focus on kind of looking at what is working and what isn't working and how we can kind of, in ACT the term is diffuse from the things that are not working and fuse to the things that are working. Also, again, it does a lot of values work, which is really what we pull from a lot when it comes to that model. Hopefully really we'll again, work hard to meet you where you're at. If all of these interventions aren't working for you, okay, let's go back to the drawing board because this is your care and you deserve to have care that is individualized to you. [CRISTINA] That's great. So if anyone is, the last acronym, ACT wondering, like, what on earth is that? There's CBT, DBT, all that. What is that one? [GABBY] Oh, Acceptance Commitment Therapy. So, sorry, DBT is Dialectical Behavioral Therapy, CBT, which most people know is Cognitive Behavior Therapy and ACT is Acceptance Commitment Therapy. [CRISTINA] And ER --- [GABBY] Oh, go ahead. [CRISTINA] No, go ahead. [GABBY] I was going to say ERP is Exposure Response Prevention. I think I said that one, but just in case. [CRISTINA] No, thank you for clarifying, because I know it can get so confusing, all these acronyms. It sounds like, especially when you're kind of stressed out looking for help, like, okay, what is all of this? Just kind of break it down a little bit. I know both of us could probably go into each of these like much, much more in depth than a podcast for each of them, but just to give a kind of general overview of like what that does look like. I think could be helpful. So thank you for doing that. And I love that your work's relational too, because I think that is so powerful because oftentimes people will ask me and I don't know if you get this question, but, well, why can't I just do a self-help book or a workbook? [GABBY] We get those, I wish, like if that was appropriate, I don't think anyone would have picked up the phone to call us. I think they know that. [CRISTINA] I noticed something else too. You offer some coaching too. So if anyone's wondering, like, and I know there's lots of coaches out there, so when somebody comes to you and says, well, should I go into coaching or would you recommend therapy, how do you differentiate between offering coaching and therapy? Or do you kind of again, look at the person and kind of give a mix or what's the difference, I guess, between coaching and therapy? [GABBY] So in order to do coaching, they have to be in therapy, at our center. This is not everywhere. And they don't have to be in therapy with us, but if they're seeking us out for recovery, coaching or meal coaching, we know at that point they're still using symptoms pretty actively, most likely. So we're going to say you don't have to be in therapy with us, but you do need to be in therapy because coaching is really going to really on the symptom use, but it's not going to get to what is fueling those symptoms. That is really what has to be worked out so that there can be like a longstanding healing, not just the short term. [CRISTINA] How would you, maybe if somebody's listening, asking can someone just need therapy because on your website too, you have a variety of different treatment providers? [GABBY] Yes. [CRISTINA] How did you make the decision when you were opening your center to incorporate all these different providers and offer all those different services to people? [GABBY] Well, I have a really awesome business coach. It's Jennifer Rawlin. So everybody knows Jennifer. She's amazing. She is incredible. My business would not be what it is without her. If you're looking for a business coach, I have the highest recommendation for her. So she was really helpful in figuring out like, well, what do you want to do? I think what felt really important to me was that I had all the things that was missing throughout my recovery. So I incorporated a family therapist. I had an RD on staff. These are all things that like, kind of were here and there, but they were never consistent for me in my recovery until I really, really dove into it as an adult. So I really wanted people to have a space where they could access what they needed. The only thing we don't have that I do wish we do had, and that's maybe a goal for 2022 or 23 is like an NP. Because I think a provider who can help with something like that might be really helpful in the future, but as of right now, my team is amazing. [CRISTINA] So from just your introductory from like having your eating disorder at 10 to now you have this center, if you look back, how is it all for you in, I guess, telling your story? How is this for you to be in this place right now in your life? [GABBY] I mean, it's pretty surreal. So Recovered & Restored will turn one in March and I have seven providers on staff. So that was definitely not the plan, but I am thrilled and so grateful to be in this place and to be able to provide the care we provide. I wish 10-year-old Gabby could see 33 year old Gabby. I know that it all turned out okay but I just feel grateful. [CRISTINA] I guess that's one thing too, for anyone out there who is right now thinking, oh, I can never get better. My life can't get to a better place or I can't be happy unless I think that's part of the eating disorder. I can't be happy unless I look a certain way, weigh a certain amount or whatever the eating disorder's telling you. Is there a message you want to send to those people listening who are really just stuck right there? [GABBY] Yes. That healing is possible and your body size does not determine your worth in any way. Not at all. You are worthy of healing, you are capable of healing. I don't often share what went, like the trajectory of the disease because I don't ever want it to be triggering to people. But if you knew some of the things I did, I promise I was sitting right where you're sitting and now I can say I'm safely and gratefully on the other side of it. So you can be too. Healing really is possible. Also your body size does not matter. Does not matter. That number on the scale is your relationship to gravity. You should throw it out, hide it, burn whatever you want to do with it, but it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. I would say that was one of the things that was the most frame to me, was when I stopped that redundant pattern of weighing. I was the kind of person that if you would've let me sit on the scale, I would've sat there all day just to see it go down the quarter of a millimeter or whatever. But, gosh, I'm so happy to have broken that pattern because that number doesn't matter at all. I wish someone would've told me that literally it's just gravity, that's it. That was so powerful for me. [CRISTINA] I know people are stuck there. It's hard to get out of that thought pattern, just that belief. So I'm wondering, do you have a lot of people right now you're working with who are, it's just really hard to let go of that and say, look at everything, look at our society, look at what's on social media. That is what matters. That is what's valued. Like, come on, you're blind to me. That's not true. I'll be so much happier. I'll feel so much better. What do you say to people? [GABBY] I think they know that they really don't. Anytime I have that conversation with clients and I'm like, okay, well, when you were in a smaller body, what was your life like? Especially if they were in the thick of their eating disorder, they're going to tell me it was horrible or that it was depressing or that it was excruciating depending on what was going on for them. They're not going to tell me their life was better. A smaller body is not a better body and it does not lead to a better life because it's really not about our body anyway. [CRISTINA] It's absolutely true. I know for anyone listening that is so hard, probably listening to us who are like recovered going, it's easy for you guys to say. I get that. I totally get that. But I think like you, I want to just instill this hope, like one day I'm hoping this kind of plants a seed in anyone's head. It's like, remember this and think, okay, it's possible. There's hope one day this won't matter. The scale won't matter. The numbers won't matter. [GABBY] Yes. And it's so true and yes, I remember too, when I would listen to people that were recovered and be like, well, good for them. But no, that can be you too. You are just as worthy and just as capable. I think the biggest thing that is really helpful is to just slowly challenge those beliefs. I think first is acknowledging them, but then just slowly challenging them, even if that's just a teeny tiny bit each day. [CRISTINA] You've given us so much information and I'm just curious for anyone who's wondering about like, oh gosh, if I do make a call to start treatment or get help, like, is it going to be forever? Am I going to be in treatment forever? Or people might think, okay, in like a month, I'll be fine. What's the kind of message you might give somebody into terms of like expectations for like length of time or if it's like a five session deal? [GABBY] I wish it was a five session deal. That would've been amazing. There is no real timeframe I could give you, but what I could say for me, and I think many, many eating disorder providers out there who are health at every size, we're going to do our best for you. We're going to do our best for you and we will guide you along the way and cheer you on as much as we can and when it gets tiring and when it gets exhausting, because it will, we'll still be there for you showing up. I think to say, I still go to therapy. I am not ashamed. I don't really go to therapy anymore for my eating disorder, but I go to therapy because it's helpful and I think it makes me a better therapist and a better human. So maybe it's less, I would say it's less about how long it's going to take, but it is about getting the healing you deserve. [CRISTINA] I love that. Because I think that that's a big question people ask is, well, once I start, is this actually going to work? Or if I don't feel like I'm getting better, what's the point? So I love that you said that's just the process and even though you're recovering, and me too, I'll share that too. I see a therapist because likewise, I think it just, we're human and there's lots of things going on in all of our lives. So it's beneficial for whatever's going on just to have that space to become a better person and get just check in. [GABBY] Exactly. Also as things don't get better, it's up to your treatments team job to help you get better or to get you to the right level of care. Because outpatient is not always appropriate for everyone and that's okay and that's their job to clinically figure that out and to get you to the right level of care so you can have healing. So know that it's much less on you and leave the heavy lifting to them. [CRISTINA] All right. Well, as we end, is there any last final words you'd like to say to anybody who's listening out there? [GABBY] I think just thank you so much for listening to me today and that if you are considering getting help for your eating disorder, please don't hesitate to reach out to me or someone on my team or to Dr. CRISTINA, because we want to help you. If we can help you that's okay. There are parameters that people might be dealing with, whether it's financial or time constraints or X, Y, Z. We get that. We'll do our best to get you to someone who can help you because you are not alone and truly, truly healing is possible. [CRISTINA] Absolutely. I love that there's providers out there, there's a variety of providers in all areas and here's yet another provider that people can reach out to and find and get help from. So thank you for sharing more about your center and what you offer and you're doing fantastic work. So thank you for being here today. [GABBY] Thank you. [CRISTINA] Oh, and actually, if people do want to find you, I guess that's the big question I forgot to ask. Sorry about that. How can they find you? [GABBY] No worries. So we are on Instagram at Gabrielle LPC and Recovered & Restored. Also, they can go to our website, recoveredandrestoredtherapy.com or they can email me directly, which is gabby@recoveredandrestoredtherapy.com. We are licensed in Pennsylvania, New Jersey and Delaware. So we can treat in all three states and nationally for anyone who's interested in coaching. [CRISTINA] Fantastic. Don't worry if you didn't get that down. I'm going to have all of that information on the show notes. So head to the website after and make sure you get all that information, if you want to get in touch with Gabby and her team. So thank you again and fantastic information. Thank you. This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or any other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.