[DR. CRISTINA CASTAGNINI] Behind The Bite podcast is part of a network of podcasts that are good for the world. Check out podcasts like the Full of Shift podcast, After the First Marriage podcast and Eating Recovery Academy over at practiceofthepractice.com/network. Welcome to Behind The Bite podcast. This podcast is about the real-life struggles women face with food, body image and weight. We're here to help you inspire and create better healthier lives. Welcome. Welcome to the show, everyone. Today, I have an amazing guest who is here to share her own story and how she went from years of struggling to recovery. So for any of you out there who have doubts that you can recover, please sit back, find a quiet place and take the time to listen to this inspiring story. Amy Ferraro has been married for 25 years and is a mom to a 17-year-old son with autism and a 22 year old daughter. She has a BS Degree in Elementary Education and Family Studies and a Master's Degree In Early Childhood Education. She dealt with binge eating disorder and an atypical anorexia for 30 years. About three years ago, she developed Kick EDs Butt, a social media forum to support anyone that suffers with an eating disorder. Well, Amy, welcome to the show. [AMY FERRARO] Hi, thank you for having me. [DR. CRISTINA] I really appreciate that you're here and willing to talk about your own story. So just wondering since you're here, would you mind telling us a little bit about yourself and your story? [AMY] Sure. I started having an eating disorder when I was a teenager in high school. I went a lot of bullying and kids would just be mean and I started restricting. Then I settled down with that for a while once my parents confronted me and said you need to really start eating. It was one of those things where it put me off, but I listened, I always listened to my parents, so I was like, okay, but then once I hit college, living on my own, I was doing, the binging started. I binged for like 30 years, through my marriage, I've been married to husband five years and most of my marriage, my husband didn't even know I was binging. I would go all day and not eat and then binge at night and what happened was probably about five years ago, I started having these excruciating headaches and spent lots of time in the hospital and was diagnosed pseudo tumor cerebri, which means fake brain tumor, so you have all the symptoms of a brain tumor. It's extra fluid in your brain, so I had to get two brain surgeries and I have some equipment down in my brain that's taking the fluid out of my brain, so I don't have the excruciating headaches anymore. But the reason why I bring that up is I had a 25-year career working with children and families, working in the field of child abuse and I ended up coming disabled and couldn't work. The issue I have, like memory issues, I have issues with my balance, I have some lasting effects from that and I still have headaches, migraines constantly. So I ended up became disabled and couldn't work anymore and so I was home. Being home, my husband was noticing food disappearing fast, and he is like, what is going on? I avoided it for a little while, but I finally did admit that I been binging for all these years. What happened was, it was to the point where like, I couldn't control it. I talked to my doctor about it and I ended up going to residential treatment for binging disorder. I did IOP and PHP afterwards and before I actually did outpatient before I went to residential treatment and then I did outpatient after. So also during that time, I was diagnosed with atypical anorexia because of the restriction that I was doing. I struggled with both, but it was the best thing that happened that got help because my parents were supportive. My husband was supportive, my kids were supportive and I decided to focus on it. So then after I get out of treatment, which is probably like four years now, about a year after that, I was just sitting, sleep at night because I have trouble sleeping a lot. So I was up and I said, I really want to make some support for people with eating disorders. One night I just came up with Kick EDs Butt a funny name, because I laughed at it. The truth is that I am working every day? So I ended up making a Facebook page, Facebook support group, I have an Instagram page and I just hoped like positive encouragement for people with eating disorders, because I feel like people just need that encouragement to know that they're worthy and worthwhile of treatment and they're worthy of recovery and recovery is hard. I put that there too, but recovery is possible. I have not had a behavior in like three years and it's a struggle every day, but because of the encouragement that I've given for kids at Kick EDs Butt, I get messages constantly for people wanting support, having questions. It just really has turned into something positive for me because I'm able to help support people through this process, which is a long process. [DR. CRISTINA] Well, what a trajectory? I know you in a short period of time, just like whole life from being a teenager to now and just wondering, going back to, I know you said you were bullied and I know a lot of people listening can very much relate to that and that being one of the main triggers to people starting to manipulate food and want to change their bodies. If you think back to that time, do you think there were any other factors that contributed or do you think that was the main one where you just felt, okay, I don't like how I'm feeling. I don't like how my peers are treating me. This is really awful. I want to do something and this is the thing I feel like I can do right now. [AMY] That was the main thing but when I started losing weight in high school, I remember this person that worked at the school that specifically came to me and said, you lost weight. You look really good. I've always been in a bigger body since high school. When someone made that comment to me, it was like, all right, now I'm going to really work on that and work on losing weight. I've always, my whole adult life have been on diets and tried so many things to lose weight and now I'm focusing on you're beautiful no matter what size you are. The other thing I'm focusing on is that you can have an eating disorder in a bigger body had doctors constantly tell me over the years you have to lose weight, you have to lose weight, and had an eating disorder during all that. [DR. CRISTINA] I love that you brought up just two things that are so important. I hear that constantly from people and I experienced that myself when there's a change in the body and someone makes that comment, oh, you look great. It's this feeling that's like, oh, I want that feeling again. I want to be noticed. It can be very intoxicating and feel like, oh, I need to keep doing this and propels people on this path to their eating disorder and maintaining it and to your point, like continuing on the diets. Like, I got to keep doing this. This is what's getting me positive attention. This is what feels good. And I wish there was some way to get out the message to the world like do not make comments about people, the parents or their bodies, especially if they lose weight. I don't know how we can stop that but every time I hear somebody say that, like I was watching a show the other day on TV and the host is like wow, man, you look like you lost weight. You look great. I just cringed. I went, oh gosh that's just such an awful message to the world, whoever's listening. Like why does that have to be the comment? Why does that even have to be a thing because I think to your point, it's like, I've heard lots of people talk about how that was one main thing that just was the impetus to everything. But also to your point nobody knows what you have going on just by the, your appearance or the size of your body or your weight. So, so many people with eating disorders go into the doctor and they don't get the right diagnosis and they get very wrong information that actually perpetuates their eating disorder. If you're being told to do all these things that you're probably already doing, like how much more could you be doing with eating less and exercising more to lose weight when probably it sounds like doing so many things? [AMY] Yes. It was just so hard to hear all these years, lose weight. Like I have fibromyalgia and some other physical issues that I deal with and you go to doctors and they're like, you have fibromyalgia because you're heavy. I was like, what? They're like, you got to lose weight. Then your fibromyalgia would be so much better. I finally had a rheumatologist when we lived in Maryland, which was a year ago, we just moved to Florida but when I was in Maryland, this rheumatologist, I went into his office and I said to him, the first visit, I said, if you're going to tell me my weight is an issue because this fibromyalgia, I'm not even going to and listen to you basically. He said to, I wasn't even going to mention your weight. I fell in love with this doctor because he's the only doctor that I've had for all these years that said, I'm not going to weight as a factor for this. I was so relieved and happy that he was like that. It's very rare and to have, I mean, that's a whole nother conversation, having these medical professionals, you go in with an eating disorder and a bigger body and it's like lose weight, lose weight, and never once did anyone think of asking me what my eating habits were, if I was having issues. The only reason I finally got into treatment is because I brought up myself with my doctor and said this is what's been going on for all these years. I had one that was like, oh, that's a disorder. But again, it took all these years of doctors to finally get one, to even help me pursue treatment. [DR. CRISTINA] Sounds like you found a good one. I mean, I can relate with you. I remember going into the doctor asking, wanting help and saying, look, I'm hardly eating anything. I'm exercising so much and I keep gaining weight. Please help me. I don't know, I feel out of control. Doctor said it's okay. People really underestimate how much they eat. Why don't you just eat less? I was like, wow, floored. I was like, how much less can I eat? To your point of atypical anorexia, I've talked about it on here, I think I weighed the most when I was in my anorexia than any other time of my life. I kept getting told the same thing as you, just eat less, exercise more. Nobody really took me seriously. I was like, what am I doing here? What's happening? [AMY] It's just so frustrating, and like I saw, just struggle with that, like I said, we just moved to Florida and I have a new doctor, I'm frustrated, not frustrated, I guess that's not the right word but I'm just trying to avoid looking for doctors because I just don't want to go into the weight conversations with everybody. But I have so many chronic conditions that I need to see specialists. So I can't avoid you either, but it's just the thought of new doctors, what are they going to say? [DR. CRISTINA] Well, and that makes me sad to hear too. I hear this all the time that there needs to be more doctors educated about eating disorders and just not to have the weight bias and not assume to know what people are doing or not doing with our food, but also there's just, why is that an issue? I'm a strong advocate for take the blood pressure, take my temperature, but why do I need to have my weight taken? What does that have to do with your health condition? [AMY] Yes, I feel like me being in a bigger body, all my tests, my blood work, my blood pressure, everything is normal. Like when I go the doctor, so it's not like I am showing signs of any type of weight related issue. All my issues are chronic illnesses that don't matter. It doesn't matter what your weight is. [DR. CRISTINA] Was just think what you were diagnosed with your brain and thinking what does that have to with your weight? Nothing. I mean, just that alone, like that must have been very scary. How did you realize something was going on? Did you feel like you had a lot of headaches and then they give you an MRI or cat-scan? What happened there for you? [AMY] I was just constantly being put in the hospital for migraines and they would treat me for migraines, but I was still having these headaches. This is how just chance happened. I was in a hospital and was the end of the month and at this hospital I was in, the doctor was like work the floor for a month and then they go on a, there's a doctor that works the floor. So it was the end of the month and they were just treating me for migraine. So the first day of the new month the doctor came and he said, I'm your new doctor and he said there's more going on than migraines. I really think there is. So he ended up, did a lot of extra tests, MRIs, spinal tap, and came to the conclusion that I had this, I had the extra food in my brain that was causing extra pressure in my head. If it wasn't for that change of the month, I wouldn't have had this doctor who pursued it because they were going to send me home and he's like, I'm not going to send you home. I do more tests. It was like, wow. This went on for a couple of years I was in the hospital for migraines. So after a couple years I had a doctor that said, let's try something different, let me test for some things. I again, thought I was going to fall off my balance, because I had a doctor that was looking at things differently and he's the one that diagnosed it when I was in the hospital and then they put me through to surgery and all that. So I literally was so grateful for this doctor for finding out what was really wrong with me because my balance is off, I was falling, I was having headaches and it was getting old though, because it was like going on for a couple years and no one could figure it out. So it was a good thing. So I have a shot and stent in my brain to help the fluid flow. I do get pressure headaches occasionally, sometimes there is pressure, but I do have chronic migraines on top of it. So I do get migraines throughout the month, but I'm doing okay. Not working is hard for me. I had a career for 25 years that I loved, so not working caused, it really caused my binging to just go even more because what I would do is when I was working, I was on the road a lot. I just like would go through a drive through. I would binge, come home and no one knew, but then at home it wasn't just at night. It was when people were working and the house and kids were at school and I had the house so I was binging more. So not working really triggered a lot in me because it was a feeling of, I don't know if inadequate is the right word, but just, I felt like I wasn't accomplishing anything being home. Now doing the Facebook groups though, gives me something to do because I have a hard time still to this day that I can't work because I just feel like I love what, I was a workaholic in a way. So in a way is good because I was able to be a mom. I just finished homeschooling my son. He's a senior. We got that. So I was able to do things that I wouldn't do working. So there's a lot of good out of it. There's just a little piece of me that still worries about not working because it was such a big part of me. [DR. CRISTINA] Well, I can, why the food would be something that you would turn to cook it, maybe get companionship. I'm wondering would that when your husband started noticing more food disappearing a lot of people feel very ashamed or feel like it's very secretive of behavior, engaging him. Were you, how did you feel when he brought that up to you? Did you feel like, okay, finally, there's some relief I can speak up and say something or were you like, oh gosh, I don't want to say anything. This is embarrassing. What was that like for you? [AMY] I was really embarrassed at first. There are times now when I don't binge, but maybe I'll overeat and the shame and guilt comes right back with the food. That's a struggle that I have just had. I've always been so embarrassed. Every time I've binged the feelings afterwards, I just feel so bad that I did it and when he brought that up, that he was noticing it was like, oh no, nothing's wrong. It's okay. I've been eating but I haven't eaten a lot. I made up those excuses until one day I started thinking about it and I was looking up and eating and I said, no, this is really what is going on with me. The feelings with the food, with the food issues were just out control. I was just feeling guilty all the time for eating. [DR. CRISTINA] So was there a point at which you said, okay, like after you, I mean, interestingly enough, wondering what got you to the point where you even looked it up? [AMY] I think with my husband mentioning it, I just, all of a sudden decided to look it up. I think I finally just was realizing it was becoming an issue. When I did look it up and was reading all about binge eating and the feelings, I was like, there is a lot here. Then I said to my husband, I said, maybe I should mention to the doctor and just see what he says. I was thinking I was going to get, oh, there's nothing wrong. You're just lose weight. But he was like, no, that really sounds like it. I really want you to go to this place that does eating disorders and have you do an assessment there. I said okay, I went and did the assessment and the girl automatically thought I could do residential. I called my mom, because my mom had known I was going to do the assessment but, I said I just do a lot of overeating and stuff. I just want to see what they say. I didn't really get into a lot of it with my mother, but I got in the car and I called my mom and I said, this girl thinks I need to go to residential treatment for my eating. I'm like, I don't know what to even think about it because I did not think it was anywhere near what she was saying. But then I think insurance wanted me to do the outpatient stuff first. So I started that and like, I would go home after PHP and I would binge. Like the minute I walked in the door, I would just eat. I had said to my therapist, I said, I really am thinking I need residential. I'm like, I can't, even, when I get home, I can't even not binge the minute I get home. Then I would not eat all day. Coffee was my breakfast and then I would just binge. Then I went to PHP and they served meals. I wasn't even eating my meals there because I was just saving it up for my binge, I think. So they finally did get me into residential treatment and I was there for a week on insurance company and they sent me home. So then I went back to PHP and they ended up, got me approved for residential again. I got to residential for a month. I was there for a month and then insurance caught me again. [DR. CRISTINA] Oh my goodness. [AMY] That was the other issue I dealt with all through treatment, even when I went back for PHP after treatment insurance caught me from PGHP because my numbers didn't show I was sick of them. [DR. CRISTINA] Hurts to hear those things. [AMY] I struggled so much with insurance cutting me several times throughout the process and I had to try something different, just frustrated. And that's the one thing that I really try to promote, also is that it's not about the number, it's the behaviors. I felt like I wasn't ready for residential. I felt like I wasn't ready for PHP when I finally did, because I was finally starting, like, you get to a point where you're finally giving in and saying, yes, I need to do this stuff. I was at that point and all of a sudden insurance caught me several times. So that was a big struggle with being in a bigger body, having an eating disorder because my numbers did not show I was struggling with an eating disorder. [DR. CRISTINA] I know there's people listening that can relate to that and probably just frustrated and angry with, just even listening to this. But you did bring up the term atypical anorexia. So for anyone listening does not know what that is can you describe what that is because that is very relevant to the criteria and why you did get cut off, I'm assuming right with the numbers and the insurance? [AMY] Yes, it's having pretty much the symptoms of anorexia, but you don't have body weight, but I had the restriction and I was having health issues. I have osteopenia in both my hips because of having an eating disorder. I'm 48. I can't remember, I'm 40 and I have osteopenia in both my hips due to malnutrition that I dealt with for years. It was good to finally get diagnosed with atypical anorexia, but insurance doesn't cognize that. They look at it as the number on the scale. They're not looking at your behaviors and my behaviors were typical of someone with anorexia. [DR. CRISTINA] I mean, it's not unfortunately an actual diagnosis in our diagnostic manual. I mean, we all know what it is, but when it comes down to insurance, I just hear your frustration and it sounds like it was just so choppy. I'm wondering for you, how long was it for you to get to the point where you felt like, okay, I am in recovery, I need the higher level of care like an IOP or PHP or even residential. How long was that for you? [AMY] A couple years after treatment, maybe like two years after treatment where I finally felt like I was at the point of being like, not needing anything. But I have been in therapy for, ever since I've left PHP I had had good therapists that I dealt with my disorder with. I think going through that process had, and I was able to see a dietician a couple times after I left. So having those supports really helped and so that's when I finally was able to start feeling like I was in recovery because before I felt like, even like two years out, I felt like I was in my eating disorder. I wasn't having the behaviors as much, but I was still feeling like I'm missing, the same nothing changed. Then working through it with my therapist, I realized that I was actually in a better place than I was. The word recovery started coming up in conversations. The more we talked about it, the more I realized that, yes, I am in recovery right now. I am not having behaviors, might have a thought, I'm not acting on the thought and I'm able to do something, watch TV, call my mom. She's a big supporter. I call her every day. I talk to husband. I've had other things, those behaviors. So it really did come, even though I did think it was. [DR. CRISTINA] Well, I'm wondering, did you ever, was that a thought in your mind, like, oh, I'm never going to get over this. I'm never going to reach recovery? Because I know that's a big thing I promote on here. I hate that myth out there that you are never going to really get over it. It's always going to be with you. I wonder if that was a great conversation to have with your therapist, like, oh wait a minute, here I am, I'm doing this and it's different and I don't have to go back to that space I was then. [AMY] Yes, it really was a time of good conversation with my therapist when I realized that and was able to talk in a more positive way. Then I was more active in my Facebook groups because I saw, I felt the feeling of recovery and that's when I was, I'm going to start showing everybody that recovery is possible. It is possible. I do a lot of my posts about recovery being possible and that you can do it. It does happen and it's hard, but you can do it. I want people to know if they have no other support out there that someone supports them saying, you can do it. [DR. CRISTINA] That is so inspiring. It sounds like for you, it's been part of your process and it's something that sustains you as well, but it sounds like you've helped so many people. That's how I even found you on Instagram is your posters are fantastic. I see how much support you give people. So in that note, if anyone out here listening is going, "Hey, how do I get this support? How do I find Amy?" How can they find you? How can they get your support and see your posts and get some encouragement? [AMY] On Facebook, all you have to do is search, Kick EDs Butt and there will come up a Facebook page and a Facebook support group. Then on Instagram, it's long. I don't know why I did this way, but it's Kick_EDs_Butt_EatingDisorders. Just look that up and you'll find me. If you really can't find me for some reason you can always email me. I will give out my email because I don't mind if people email me and say, I can't find you I've been looking for you. It's amyferraro@gmail com. [DR. CRISTINA] That's wonderful. Thank you so much for being such a great resource and your willingness to reach out to people or have them reach out to you as well. Any fast forwards for anyone who's listening before we end? [AMY] I just want to remind people that recovery is a process and sometimes you go up and sometimes you go down and sometimes you go back up and down and it is a process, but recovery is possible and you are special and you are just wonderful and you will get through it. If you ever need support, definitely contact me. It's nice to talk to people who've been through it. It makes it more relatable when you're talking to someone that's been through it. So definitely I'm always available. [DR. CRISTINA] Well, thank you so much, really appreciate you being here and sharing your story and sharing all the resources you have for people out there who do need the support, because truly in those moments where you're just feeling so alone and feel like you're hitting rock bottom, that's really an important resource to have. So thank you so much, Amy. [AMY] Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate being able to share my story. [DR. CRISTINA] This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or any other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.