Why is transparency in editing important for mental health? Are you concerned about how advertising impacts your children? How can you approach parenting kids about social media in a safe and trusting way? In this podcast episode, Dr. Cristina Castagnini speaks about honesty in editing with Suzanne Samaka.

MEET SUZANNE SAMAKA

Suzanne Samaka is a 33-year-old mum from Watford. She grew up in a single-parent, working-class family, which has given her a strong sense of working hard to achieve. Suzanne has spent 15 years working for a high street bank in a number of roles, mainly around relationships and people. She is fiercely protective over her family and works with a passionate focus to give her children the best start in life. Suzanne recently started a petition to change social media laws so that they state when content is filtered or edited. Her goal is to help boost young people's self-esteem by having imagery accurately reflect what people really look like. Find out more, sign the petition and use the social media hashtag: #honestyaboutediting Connect with Suzanne on Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn.

IN THIS PODCAST

  • Lack of transparency
  • Teenagers, mental health, and social media
  • Parenting kids to prepare them for social media use

Lack of transparency

Photos can be edited and changed. Photos can be made to look “idealistic” or “blemish-free” for any purpose. However, the idea is that any photograph that has been edited – especially those of people to achieve an uncharacteristic or improbable standard – should be labeled as edited.
I’ve got absolutely nothing against social media. I think it can be hugely positive in the right way … I haven’t got anything against editing photos or videos … to me that goes in the same category as plastic surgery: it’s your body, do what you like with it. What I have got a problem with is the lack of transparency. (Suzanne Samaka)

Teenagers, mental health, and social media

Edited photographs are misleading and can be damaging to both adult men and women, but they are especially so to young people. Younger adults and teenagers who are not yet experienced in life or old enough to properly understand that advertising is false and purposefully unattainable end up struggling with unhealthy comparisons. Teenagers and young people are still going through their individuation process and can easily be influenced. Therefore, they are often victims of damaging advertising and marketing.
Nobody’s saying that social media should disappear … but it needs to be safer. (Suzanne Samaka)

Parenting kids to prepare them for social media use

As parents you do worry about what they’re looking at and what they’re seeing and what’s going through their head at the same time but … you can’t control everything so you have to have an element of trust, and hopefully respect, along there as well. (Suzanne Samaka)
  • Put intentional, kind effort into teaching your kids the pros and cons of different media platforms instead of banning all of them
  • Trust your kids and give them a chance to learn for themselves, following the advice and lessons you have taught
  • Have an idea of what it is they are seeing. Approach this conversationally instead of accusingly
  • Strive to keep social media implications and experiences an open topic for your kids to approach you to talk about freely

USEFUL LINKS

MEET DR. CRISTINA CASTAGNINI

I am a licensed Psychologist and Certified Eating Disorder Specialist. While I may have over 20 years of clinical experience, what I also have is the experience of having been a patient who had an eating disorder as well. One thing that I never had during all of my treatment was someone who could look me in the eye and honestly say to me "hey, I've been there. I understand". Going through treatment for an eating disorder is one of the hardest and scariest things to do. I remember being asked to do things that scared me. Things I now know ultimately helped me to get better. But, at the time, I had serious doubts and fears about it. If even one of my providers had been able to tell me "I know it's scary, but I had to go through that part too. Here's what will probably happen...." then perhaps I would not have gone in and out of treatment so many times. My own experience ultimately led me to specialize in treating eating disorders. I wanted to be the therapist I never had; the one who "got it". I will be giving you my perspective and information as an expert and clinician who has been treating patients for over 2 decades. But don't just take my word for it...keep listening to hear the truly informative insights and knowledge guest experts have to share. I am so happy you are here!

THANKS FOR LISTENING

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Podcast Transcription

[DR. CRISTINA CASTAGNINI] Behind The Bite podcast is part of a network of podcasts that are good for the world. Check out podcasts like the Full of Shift podcast, After the First Marriage podcast and Eating Recovery Academy over at practiceofthepractice.com/network. Welcome to Behind The Bite podcast. This podcast is about the real life struggles women face with food, body image and weight. We're here to help you inspire and create better healthier lives. Welcome. . Well, hello everyone. I know I'm not the only one who has seen an ad or a photo out there out in a magazine or social media and had no idea until it was pointed out that it was altered, that the person in the photo looked drastically different in their before picture than in their after picture. I remember that once I realized there were sites out there that took it upon themselves to put photos like this and showed example after example of before and after snapshots that I almost couldn't take myself away from them at first. I just found them really fascinating to look at. I mean, how a person could be so transformed through the use of such programs as Photoshop, it was absolutely mind boggling to me. Every part of someone could be changed and each photo was altered to fit something, a look, a body type flawless skin. They just had this perfect image of an idealized body type that wasn't even attainable by those who were actually in the pictures. Let's face it, over the years we've all been bombarded with these images. We've been unknowingly subjected to seeing images of people looking away that nobody can possibly look. Well, they can look that way if they are Photoshopped. So there are lots and lots of problems that come with us not being told that these photos are not real, lots and lots of problems that come with thinking that people really can and do look like that, that somewhere out there, these people are out there who look just like that. The biggest problem I think is that we think we too can achieve that look. There is so much to discuss about all of this, so, so much, which is why I'm so happy to have our guest with us today because she is really passionate about this topic. Not only does she have a lot to say about it, but she's doing a whole lot about it too. Suzanne Samaka is a 33 year old mom who grew up in a single parent working class family, which has given her a strong sense of working hard to achieve. She spent 15 years working for a high street bank in a number of roles, mainly around relationships and people. She is fiercely protective of her family and has a passionate focus to give her children the best start in life. Her happy place is walking outside, preferably nice weather with her partner and her children. Well, Suzanne, then welcome to the show. [SUZANNE SAMAKA] Thank you for having me. Great to be here. [DR. CRISTINA CASTAGNINI] So I did say a little bit about you but it's always good to hear from my guests about themselves. Would you mind talking a little about you and how you got involved with everything? [SUZANNE] Yes, absolutely. I have started the campaign known as #honestyaboutediting. What that's for is amend laws, the label content that has been digitally amended. And that's recently been well, it's actually used in the law in three countries at the moment. So France, Israel, and very recently Norway also passed the law. I'm campaigning or the UK to do the same thing. The main reason for that is to protect young people's mental health. So just trying to put some context to myself and where I've come from. So I'm the stepmother to four children. I've got a two year old daughter and a 12 week old daughter. So life's pretty busy at the moment and there's quite a few young people around. I've never done any form of social change at all, anything like that. I've worked fulltime for a bank for 16 years. So I'm a normal, as you can imagine, there's nothing to it other than personal experience I suppose. Sadly a close member of our family was diagnosed with anorexia about four years ago now. It's fair to say that we'll never know the root cause of that. They probably won't either. But what has become very, very apparent to me is that they're not alone in the anxiety, depression, physical and mental health challenges that they face in their adolescent phase. Sadly we spend a lot of time in eating disorder, inpatient clinics. I was just absolutely shocked and saddened how full of birthing they were with young girls and boys alike. I think for me, I felt compelled to try and do something to reverse the amount of young people that seem to be affected by low self-esteem or mental health challenges. I think it says that my family member is my firsthand experience. I've just seen and heard too many examples where actually these young people need prevention, something that puts some level of prevention in place to help support them to build their resilience. I suppose that's where I'm coming from. [DR. CRISTINA CASTAGNINI] Well, that's fabulous. I love the fact that you're saying you've never been someone who's done anything like this. You worked in a bank, you're just a mom, you're somebody who works outside of the realm of political change. You've never done this. So I think that's inspiring because it's like anybody can do this. Anybody can take on a cause that they're really passionate about and try to make some major changes, which they're very necessary. Like you said, only three countries have laws that require a label that says like this is an altered photo. It is surprising when you think about all the countries and all the photos out there, there is only three. [SUZANNE] I think one time that I went through this rabbit hole of realizing how much content is edited online, it's amazing how little I've realized that let alone someone who might not be aware of that. I just thought how can this be the case? I've done a lot of research into it and France actually had their law of 2017, their health minister cited the main reason for it being put in place is because of the negative effects on bodies related behaviors from not being aware of where the content is edited; whether that be your skin is flawless or you're thinner or you're taller or whatever it be. But what I'd realized is, and don't get me wrong, I don't believe social media is the reason people have eating disorders or depression or mental health challenges, but it certainly exacerbates the problem. It drives comparison, which also creates negative behaviors. And I think, being aware that that person hasn't woken up looking like that and then young people feeling like, well, why don't I look like that? I'm not good enough or whatever it be. I think it's just the fact that it gives that level of transparency. A couple of things I need to clarify is that I've got absolutely against social media. I think it can be hugely positive in the right way. I've also not really got anything against editing of photos or videos or whatever you want to do. To me that goes into the same category as plastic surgery. I think that is where it's really affecting people. And it affects all of us regardless of age or sex or anything like that. The reason I'm focused on young people is because I build my resilience and confidence when I was younger. I certainly didn't build it in 30's. So to me, I think that's such an important time and probably from personal experience, from my family members as well, I've seen that these challenges cause lifelong scars. They don't go away overnight. They can be years, decades, even. They might not be and hopefully they're not. But they can create a very long lasting effect on somebody's life. So I think anything that I can do that's a small step in the grand scheme that's actually going to help people's self-esteem or behaviors in relation to body image, then I'm all for it. [DR. CRISTINA CASTAGNINI] I think you said something really important, people are going through individuation stages. Teenagers are really developing who they are as an individual. So it is a really prime time to target this age group and it is a time where they want acceptance and they want people to like them and they've actually done, they've shown that the likes that people get from social media and their posts it can give you a little hit of dopamine pressure. So if you're looking at say your peers and they're getting hundreds of likes and your posts are getting very few there's that comparison right there. So people were wanting to do things like, well, what can I do to get more likes, or maybe what do they look like? What do I look like? What do I need to do to get more likes? What do I need to do to get more attention? So in that way, social media really can wreak some havoc on someone's self-esteem. When they're being bombarded with all of these images of people that they don't know if they really look like that or not, but they can't tell the difference and they do believe that's what people do look like. So if they're comparing themselves to something that, a look or an appearance that isn't even attainable because it's not. It's not actually something they can achieve. They're trying to achieve something in their own body that they're never going to. So they're going to constantly feel not good enough, or I'm doing something wrong or I'm a failure. That's the problem I have with it, is like they're going down a path and it's like, they're never going to achieve their goal. [SUZANNE] You would set out the failure in your head almost. So you're obtaining, or you're trying to obtain something like you said, that is completely unobtainable. Recently there was some research leaked from Facebook in regards to Instagram and as very often the case, it's pretty much only teen girls. Actually the problem is becoming an increasing problem in teen boys as well. Girls tend to want to be thinner. With boys it's I'm not big enough. I'm not bulky enough dysmorphia problem. In the same way, many eating disorders have to do with teen girls, the stereotypical anorexia bulimia that everyone is the only a problem that's available and only affects white teenage girls, which is obviously incorrect. So the data leaked from Facebook, and they are very aware how toxic it can be for teens. I mean, I'll read this verbatim to make sure I get it right. They stood by the leaked information confirming some serious problems that 32% of teen girls said that when they felt bad about their bodies, Instagram made them feel worse. So that statement that actually as soon as you're looking at something like that, you're going into this comparison hole. There was another one that was one of three teen girls' body image issues are worsened by Instagram. And something that was really scary is among teens reported suicide reports, 13% of British users and 6% of American users traces desires to suicide back to Instagram. Don't get wrong. It's all not going to be fixed by labeling edited content, but if it's a step in the direction, then hopefully it becomes a snowball and more can happen to make this a safer place. Not saying social media is bad even that they should, but it needs to be safer. [DR. CRISTINA CASTAGNINI] I agree with you. I don't know if you know much about my history, but the reason I started the podcast is because I had an eating disorder when I was a teenager myself. I shared in the first few podcasts that one of the main influences that impacted me and my self-esteem and just continually trying to look a certain way was, we didn't have social media back when I had it. We had magazines and TV shows and movies. But I remember pouring over magazines, looking at celebrities and their bodies and comparing myself all the time. That was one main thing and going, "How come I don't have that for my stomach? How come I don't have that little dip on the side of my rear or how come I don't look like that? I'm trying so hard. I'm exercising so much. I'm following the diet perfectly. Why don't I look like that?" I think back to that time, I think if there had been some, anything that said this photo was altered, I don't know if it would've had an impact on me, but maybe. Maybe it would've helped me to know I can't achieve this because they didn't either or anything. It probably would've made a big difference because I remember just thinking I am failing horribly. I need to keep doing more. I need to keep eating less. I need to exercise more. I just need to keep doing more and more because I'm not getting there. What's wrong with my body? [SUZANNE] Then that's driving the eating disorder and exactly why it wants attainfulness, which is terrifying for young people. It's getting younger. I mean obviously, this isn't a pandemic problem. People have spent more time online because of the pandemic. So we are seeing a lot more edited content because we're online more. But it's certainly not something that's born out of the pandemic. The amount of people that have been in touch since I set up the campaign, and different types of people for example, many teachers have been in touch with me saying that they've had conversations with students that come to them desperately sad because they feel under massive pressure from this perceived perfection of social media or equivalent loneliness when they feel their faces don't fit. I've also had countless parents get in touch with me worried about how body conscious their children are from ages as young as eight, nine. We're not necessarily talking about teens here. People assume I'm talking about, 15 year olds. We're talking you, really young. And parents are worried. I've also heard people get in touch who are adults and have suffered eating disorders or mental health issues in their teenage years. They found the campaign because they just can't comprehend how they would've got through it in today's world. Actually similar to what you said. They would those protection in place because actually that might have helped. But also one thing really surprises me, is the amount of people who are young people, sort of between the ages of 16 to 25, I would say, who have got in touch and said, thank you for doing this because actually I feel under massive pressure. Would they sit in a group with their friends and say that? No, probably not. Would they sit in a group of their friends and say, we need this? Maybe not. But actually when they're on their own and they are in this pressure, they want somebody having their corner. I think, I'm a parent now, but recently a parent, I'm a stepparent. But also I'm just a member of society. I look at it and think if we've got a whole heap of damaged kids, they become damaged to adults, how do we survive as a society? Who solves that issue? So I think it's a long-term gain. Like I said, only three countries that I think are looking at this and realize that it's something that's so simple, but it's a step in the right. [DR. CRISTINA CASTAGNINI] I'm sitting in the states, and I've often asked in my thoughts, why are we so behind? Why haven't we taken a law and added a little blurb that said this altered? I actually looked into it a little bit. The Fair Trade Commission is our governing body over advertising in the states. So the FTC has enforced truth in advertising law since it was created 1914 but these laws haven't been used on images yet. So it convened this center that introduced the Advertising Act back in 2014 and it specifically requested that the FTC submit a report to Congress on ways that that the commission can reduce Photoshopping of models in advertising. 201, but the act died after Congress refused to bring it to the floor for a vote, which is so sad. What happened there? [SUZANNE] I know. It's interesting, because I set this up in April and the campaign, don't me wrong. There are a couple of members of parliament that are hugely, hugely supportive of this. So there's an MP who back in 2020 took a bill to parliament called the digitally amended bodies bill. The reason for that is he's member of parliament now, but he was previously a doctor. As a doctor, people would come to him and he would see the issues in people's mental health and physical health on trying to achieve images or trying to achieve a look based on images that just isn't possible. So he tried to take this forward. Now in the UK, it's election before bills pass. It basically goes back to the bottom of the pile, and that's what happens. So doesn't matter how important it is. It gets kicked out of parliament until it's talked about again. So I set up this campaign, he very much wanted it to progress. My local member of parliament is very supportive of this. I have 2000 signatures. Now, 2000 signatures isn't that many, in my opinion, for a very simple that I think would support our young people. It's amazing how important something can be and how limited access or exposure it gets. Maybe I'm biased, but I think for something that is quite simple to solve and a bit like if you go on Instagram and a celebrity is being paid to endorse something and now has to say hashtag I don't necessarily know the reasons behind it, but I guess there is a tax implication in there as well. So when it's about money it gets a good chance. When it's driven by health benefits and people's health, not so quick from my experience. [DR. CRISTINA CASTAGNINI] Very sad. It's almost like priorities and what's really driving things. [SUZANNE] Yes, absolutely. I think the scary bit is when you actually look and going back to those things leaked from Facebook earlier in the year. They are well aware of how toxic it can be, and I say, can be, not necessarily is, but can be for young people. There's very few senior people in any social media company that will let their children have social media. Take from that what you will but I think that was quite telling. [DR. CRISTINA CASTAGNINI] So let me ask you, knowing all of this, I know your kids are much younger, but how would you feel about your kids being on Instagram or Facebook knowing this --- [SUZANNE] One thing I always say is I'm not against social media. I'm really not. I think my partner, we've got children in our family, very different ages. We've got children from 23 down to 12 weeks. So there's a real span. My partner with his children, they are the older ones, he, in my opinion is really smart in how he does it. I'm not very good with technology. For example technology's moved on past. I use Instagram, I have Facebook, the older platforms, if you like. I have no clue how to send a message on Snapchat. My partner, who's 17 years older than me communicates with his kids on Snapchat. Now what that means is he has an idea of what they're seeing and what they're doing. So there's an element of respect to that there without it being, keeping an eye on me because it's not about that. My kids are two and 12 weeks. So I've got quite a way to learn my way around how I parent, if you like. But what I would like to think that I would do is I think you have to trust the time and effort you put into being a parent and give young people that element of trust. But I think you should have an idea on what they're seeing and what's not about conversational rather than what are you looking at. I'm not saying that it is easy with teenagers, for sure. But I think from what I've seen of my partner, he's very good at having that conversation around it rather than it being you should or shouldn't be doing this. Therefore, his children feel like they're the ones making the decision in what to do. And to be fair to them, that's normally the right decisions. Like I say, we have suffered with family members having mental health challenges. So it's not always been right. They said that social media has had negative impacts to that as well. So it does create a problem. As parents, you do worry about what they're looking at, what they're seeing, what's going through their head at the same time. But I don't think you can control everything. I think you have to have a moment of trust and then hopefully respect along there as well. [DR. CRISTINA CASTAGNINI] That's very well said. Teenagers and, it is hard to know exactly what they're seeing at all times. I think it is about conversation too. I think with my daughter, I point out, okay, what do you think of this photo? What do you think of this ad, and having a constructive conversation about things. I think it's helpful. I know there are some profiles on Instagram that are more grassroots that they call out the photos, like the before and after and try to point out, okay, this one's Photoshop, this one's altered. Let's see how. So I do appreciate people who are trying to at least bring it to the forefront and have a conversation on those same platforms that the kids are on. So hopefully teenagers can get a variety of exposure to lots of different platforms, not just the ones that maybe are wreaking havoc on their self-esteem. So I do like to look at those Instagram posts as well with my daughter so she'll see, look at that photo. It's altered, and this is why. So I do think it is right to have conversations for sure. [SUZANNE] Young people, I speak for myself, will probably always be a step ahead of me from a technology standpoint going forward. So I would want that to be conversational rather than almost overpowering, because I'm think then just, I remember like as a young person, if it was overpowering, I think it would've had the opposite effect. So I think it's a careful balance. I think there is a lot of worry, especially when you see something changes in their behaviors or what they do and how they're living their life as they grow up. So it's not easy but that conversation and trying to keep it lighthearted helps. [DR. CRISTINA CASTAGNINI] Absolutely. Really want to make a change. I don't know if there's any last words you want to share with the audience or anyone listening out there who maybe would like to start making a change in their own country or in their own local area or anything like that, because you're very inspiring. I love the fact that you're doing this. [SUZANNE] Thank you. I think for me, it', ok the signatures are to try and change the law in the UK. But actually that law amending is always going to take a long, long time. What I want to do a side of that is raise awareness of it, but also just create a bit more of a movement that helps people's self-esteem whether that be younger, older, female, male. It's irrelevant. I think everybody, this day and age, if you're having a bad day, it's very easy to scroll and see things that look better than your day. And I've had that personally, so I think it's to highlight real of social media and just remind everybody as a bit of a movement that we all have bad days. We all have good photos. We all have bad photos. We all have bad angles and bad light that doesn't affect. I think that's a big part of that. [DR. CRISTINA CASTAGNINI] It's so well said. I cannot tell you how many people I've talked to and said, oh my gosh, I feel like my life is awful. I look at all the Facebook feed, everyone's so happy and they're on vacation and I'm sitting home doing nothing. It's like, I want people to remember that just like you said, everyone's putting out their shiniest moments, the best pictures. If you're seeing 5, 6, 10, people's shiny moments in comparison, you, of course can feel, oh my gosh, in comparison, what am I doing right now, especially if you already went in with feeling pretty awful that day. But it's just moments you're looking at and there's a lot more behind the moments and to just keep a perspective for sure. [SUZANNE] Definitely, but if anybody wants to get in touch or anybody wants to sign, like I said, the campaign is #honestyaboutediting. You can find it on all social media platforms, on Instagram at Protect the Youth Mental Health and Suzanne Samaka on Twitter. So by all means if anybody wants to get in touch, please do. I'm always happy to talk to people, always here to hear from people. So anybody who wants to get in touch, please do [DR. CRISTINA CASTAGNINI] Fantastic. Thank you so much, Suzanne. It's been a pleasure. [SUZANNE] Thank you for having. Take care. [DR. CRISTINA CASTAGNINI] This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or any other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.