Are you currently in the dating scene? How does one form genuine connections with new people? Why must you always start with honesty and authenticity on a dating app? In this podcast episode, Dr. Cristina Castagnini speaks with Dr. Frankie about dating post-covid and how to practice authenticity in new relationships.

MEET DR. FRANKIE BASHAN

Dr. Frankie Bashan is a renowned relationship coach and dating expert. She is a licensed clinical psychologist with over a decade of experience working with couples and individuals and specialized training in the field of trauma. Dr. Frankie is the CEO & Founder of LittleGayBook.com, which focuses on personalized matchmaking for lesbians and bisexual women, and has successfully connected couples across the United States for the last decade. Her latest venture is as CEO & Founder of LittleBlackBookMatchmaking.com, specializing in personalized matchmaking for heterosexual singles. Dr. Frankie’s coaching is based in the San Francisco Bay Area, but clients can access her services via Skype/FaceTime/Zoom from around the globe. You can follow Dr. Frankie on InstagramTwitter and Facebook.

IN THIS PODCAST

  • Start slow
  • Be committed to challenging yourself
  • Navigating dating app issues
  • Always strive for authenticity

Start slow

Dating post-COVID is a difficult situation to navigate, especially if you haven’t been around people a lot, and perhaps find it tricky to meet people. Start slow and gradually. Go to events that you feel safe at, like outdoor events, and to ones that showcase or include activities that you actually enjoy.
I encourage [clients] to commit to going to one event … a week or one event a month, especially if they’re somebody who has a lot of [social] anxiety. (Dr. Frankie)
What matters most is connection. Realize that everyone who is around you also desires and appreciates genuine human contact and connection.

Be committed to challenging yourself

If you are constantly choosing the easy route, then it will take a long time for you to reach your goals and fulfill your desires. So, commit to challenging yourself to step out of your comfort zone to make the necessary change, because then you open yourself up to new people, experiences, and connections.
When you do that, you increase your self-esteem, you feel like you’ve accomplished something, and it leaves you feeling good on the other side of it. If you’re always choosing the path of least resistance … you don’t allow yourself to experience the accomplishment or success of leaning in and facing fear and walking [through] it. (Dr. Frankie)
Be authentic in what you do by sticking to doing the things that you actually enjoy when meeting people. Do not let yourself down by pretending to like something to meet someone, but rather stick with your preferences, and challenge yourself within that space to meet someone. Then, you are more likely to connect with someone who has similar interests and form a sincere connection.

Navigating dating app issues

Due to the pandemic, dating apps have become the main way in which people seek and find connection. However, there can sometimes be issues, such as catfishing or false pretenses. You can:
  • Say no
  • Set your boundaries and expectations
  • Decline requests that do not make you feel comfortable
  • Be honest with yourself
  • Pay attention to the red (and green) flags and listen to your intuition
I do still hear success stories [from] using dating apps, but I think you gotta kiss a lot of frogs … but just because you have a negative experience doesn’t mean that you throw in the towel. (Dr. Frankie)

Always strive for authenticity

Sometimes when people are desperate for connection, they feel willing to do almost anything to try to connect with someone, such as editing their picture or pretending to be someone that they are not.
Then you’re going to get rejected. That’s going to backfire, 99% of the time, if you’re putting up a filtered photo and you show up on your first date, you’re going to get rejected … that’s not love and that’s not loving yourself. Don’t do that to yourself. Be authentic because most people want somebody honest, real, and authentic. (Dr. Frankie)
Do not neglect yourself in the process of trying to find love and connection, because then you risk losing yourself, or getting into a relationship with someone who does not truly value you for who you are.

USEFUL LINKS

MEET DR. CRISTINA CASTAGNINI

I am a licensed Psychologist and Certified Eating Disorder Specialist. While I may have over 20 years of clinical experience, what I also have is the experience of having been a patient who had an eating disorder as well. One thing that I never had during all of my treatment was someone who could look me in the eye and honestly say to me "hey, I've been there. I understand". Going through treatment for an eating disorder is one of the hardest and scariest things to do. I remember being asked to do things that scared me. Things I now know ultimately helped me to get better. But, at the time, I had serious doubts and fears about it. If even one of my providers had been able to tell me "I know it's scary, but I had to go through that part too. Here's what will probably happen...." then perhaps I would not have gone in and out of treatment so many times. My own experience ultimately led me to specialize in treating eating disorders. I wanted to be the therapist I never had; the one who "got it". I will be giving you my perspective and information as an expert and clinician who has been treating patients for over 2 decades. But don't just take my word for it...keep listening to hear the truly informative insights and knowledge guest experts have to share. I am so happy you are here!

THANKS FOR LISTENING

Did you enjoy this podcast? Feel free to comment below and share this podcast on social media! You can also leave a review of Behind The Bite on Apple Podcasts (previously) iTunes and subscribe!

Podcast Transcription

[DR. CRISTINA CASTAGNINI] Behind The Bite podcast is part of a network of podcasts that are good for the world. Check out podcasts like the Full of Shift podcast, After the First Marriage podcast and Eating Recovery Academy over at practiceofthepractice.com/network. Welcome to Behind The Bite podcast. This podcast is about the real-life struggles women face with food, body image and weight. We're here to help you inspire and create better healthier lives. Welcome. Well, hello everyone. Welcome to the show. We're social beings and I'm noticing that the last couple of years of being in the pandemic has really affected people in all sorts of ways, more specifically in how comfortable they're feeling reentering social situations, communicating with others and in establishing relationships, especially romantic relationships. Dating has always been a pretty common topic that I hear in my office, but since the pandemic, I have heard it much more frequently, and I've been hearing a lot more about the anxieties people have about it. They're a little bit different than before. This can be especially stressful for anyone who has any body image issues, because they're already struggling with feelings of self-worth and lacking confidence. So I got thinking that since this seems to be something that I so commonly hear about, it would probably be a good idea to bring it here, to discuss on the podcast. I thought who better than to discuss this topic than with a renowned dating expert and relationship coach who specializes in matchmaking. That's who I have here as our guest today and I'm so thrilled to have Dr. Frankie Bashan on the show to give you all this expert advice and information that she is amassed over her decades of experience in working with couples and individuals. Dr. Frankie is a licensed clinical psychologist who possesses a unique combination of formal training, innate emotional intelligence and communication skills that allow her to help couples struggling with relationship issues of all kinds. She's the CEO and founder of her matchmaking enterprises and has successfully connected couples across the United States for the last decade. She is no stranger to the public eye with her inspiring Ted talk about sexual fluidity and co-hosting MTV's reality show, Who Do You Love? Dr. Frankie, welcome to the show. [DR. FRANKIE BASHAN] Thanks for having me on Dr. Castagnini. I'm happy to be here again. [DR. CRISTINA] Well, so funny to hear you call me Dr. Castagnini. So I think this is such a timely topic. Like I said we're coming out the pandemic and just for my listeners who I know some people can relate. It's really hard to figure out how to have emotional intimacy, especially if they've really had a connection with ED, as I call it, eating disorder and socially isolated and haven't really connected with people for whatever reason, whether they didn't go to parties or social events for some time, or just maybe were in treatment and really focused on that. So help us out here, how do people learn how to emotionally connect or learn how to have healthy communication in relationships with others? [DR. FRANKIE] This is a great topic because I think many of us have been struggling to put ourselves back out there. I mean, two years of being isolated and many of us already has struggled with anxiety and now, I mean, with the pandemic, those symptoms are amplified. So it's a great topic. I think what I always tell clients is to start out really slow, gradually to pick an event to go to that feels safe, meaning it's best to be outside. That's the safest way to engage with people right now. So I encourage them to commit to going to one event. It might be one event a week or one event a month, especially if there's somebody who really has a lot of anxiety and social anxiety, not just fear about getting COVID but just fear of engaging with people, striking up conversations. A lot of my clients have a hard time just meeting new people. How do you strike up a conversation with a stranger? How do you enter a group of people where you notice that they look like they're having a good time and you want to connect with them and how do you do that? [DR. CRISTINA] Well, I think I'm hearing that a lot too, of people saying gosh I don't really feel like, "I know how to find friends as an adult. I think it was a lot easier for people." I can say this for myself too. I go so much easier when I was in college or grad school. I had thousands of people, my same age, doing the same thing that weren't yet married or had kids and as I got older, my friends moved away and got caught up in adulting and it's a lot harder and so much to your point. Add the pandemic to that and I think that is a big thing on people's minds, how do you go out in the world and start connecting with people, finding a social network again, especially to your point, like, if anybody has in their mind, oh my gosh, are people going to judge me or are they going to, am I going to say something stupid? Or what are they thinking about me? Or they're in their mind with the social anxiety of oh it's just a lot of worries. What do people do? [DR. FRANKIE] I think it's important for us to remember that as human beings we're wired to connect. We thrive when we're able to connect. So we are coming out of a really anxiety provoking period of time with a lot of fear, like in the media and the political climate, there's a lot of fear out there. But if you really think about it, what matters most to us is connection. So like anybody that you go to approach or a new person that you're engaging would just know that they are just as hungry for human contact and good conversation and for somebody to even notice them that and to show interest in engaging with them. Most people are going to have a positive reaction to that, to you showing interest in them, even as anything, hey, I noticed you and I wanted to come over and introduce myself, just any or I noticed you have this fantastic hat on. I love your hat, give a compliment, people love compliments, another thing that's really helpful. When you want to enter a group situation like that, either you see someone in that group that looks interesting to you or maybe is attractive to you, and you want to enter the group to connect with this one individual person you want to enter by engaging with the whole group initially so you disarm everybody and then they welcome you. Then you can focus your attention on that one person. [DR. CRISTINA] If I can imagine people listening, going, oh my gosh, that sounds so intimidating to go to a whole group of people who seem like they're engaged in a conversation and just like just infiltrate the group and say something. [DR. FRANKIE] Well, I mean, if you get, who doesn't like to get a compliment? If you walk over to a group and go, "Hey, you guys are clearly having fun over here. There was something about the energy in this group that caused me to want to come over and just say, hey, because clearly this is where it's at. This is where the fun's at," they're going to be like, "Hey." No one's going to look you and be like, I mean, we're not in middle school anymore. No, one's going to look you and be like, who's this? They're not in our group. Forget that. She's not welcome in that group. Most likely they're going to be cool. [DR. CRISTINA] Do you work with, I mean, I know you do relationship coaching, do you work with people on how to get over whatever fears they have that the big hurdle and keeping them from connecting and going up to people? [DR. FRANKIE] I absolutely work with people's fears and how they get in the way of their own ability to connect or their own success. A lot of our fears are completely irrational. So with the encouragement of me, that's consistent on a regular basis. I help them to just, because they trust me to have a greater willingness to take some risks. Then when the outcome based on those risks are positive, then they're like, oh, Frankie's onto something and now I feel great that my clients are feeling great that they actually took the risk. They were bold enough to step into their fear. They come out on the other side, regardless of the outcome, they come out on the other side feeling like, "I did it." Even if I didn't go get this person to go on a date with me, for example because I do a lot of dating coaching, the fact that I even struck up conversation with this individual, I feel proud of myself. That's an accomplishment. So what do the studies show? One in three interactions is going to leave you with a positive feeling. I think so you walk away, one in three of your interactions are going to leave you feeling really good, strangers, stranger interactions. [DR. CRISTINA] I can see that the benefit of having somebody encouraging you and helping you work through like what you're really afraid of. When I work with people, call it cognitive distortions. They're catastrophizing the worst-case scenario, like, oh gosh, I'm going to go to this group and they're going to laugh at me or ignore me or whatever they're thinking the worst case scenario is. It sounds like what you're saying is when people actually overcome their fear and do it, those catastrophic events don't happen it's in fact there's shock that it's quite the opposite. [DR. FRANKIE] Yes. Also you need to ask yourself, how likely is it that this person is going to just like laugh in my face when I come over and say hello and I introduce myself? What's a likelihood that that's going to happen? It's pretty slim if you're going to be honest with yourself. If they have a rude reaction, that's on them. That right there they just showed you who they are. That's not somebody you want to be friends with anyway. So it's their loss. Just like, let it roll off and move on and be like, oh, I'm happy that figure that one out real quick. Clearly that's their issue. It has nothing to do with me. Because they don't even know you. [DR. CRISTINA] If you were like, imagine, I guess anyone listening, if you were in a group of people and somebody came up to your group and said something, just like you mentioned, would you laugh at this person just for saying a comment, like you said, or how would you react if it was the opposite? [DR. FRANKIE] Exactly, you got to ask yourself that question. How would I react if some stranger walked up to me with a smile? We want to walk up in a friendly way when we approach somebody, not with like a serious face and our shoulders curled in. We want to be open our, body open. The body language has to be like, I'm open, I'm friendly, I'm a little bit vulnerable. Vulnerability helps people connect. [DR. CRISTINA] Well, I think everyone can relate to that too. Who doesn't know what it feels like to be vulnerable and just a little bit like nervous? Everyone's been there. [DR. FRANKIE] Yes. So if we can sense a little vulnerability, I think it's easier for us to connect with each other because you've got, I think if you're empathetic or compassionate human, you're like, oh, this person just, that's not easy to approach somebody randomly and introduce them yourself. That's hard to do. So we get that, most of us are afraid to randomly walk up to strangers. It's normal. [DR. CRISTINA] I know a lot of my listeners really struggle with assertiveness and so I could imagine they're just, again, going into the snow way in the world, I'm doing this, but really what's the alternative? What happens if you don't? What happens if you don't start changing your behaviors or putting in some effort to create a new life for yourself? I guess that's another question to ask, is what is going to start making the change to have more connections in your life? I don't know, do you have any other ideas about that? [DR. FRANKIE] I think we need to be committed to challenging ourselves every day, challenge ourselves to step out of our comfort zone. Because when we do that, you increase your self-esteem, you feel like you've accomplished something, it leaves you feeling good on the other side of it. So if you're always choosing the path of least resistance, the easiest least or less challenging, you don't allow yourself to actually experience the accomplishment or the success of leaning in, like facing fear right in the face, walking right into it. That's the way to increase confidence. I mean, what are your thoughts about that? [DR. CRISTINA] I agree with you. I think, like I said, we're in a new, this is a different world that I think none of us have ever experienced before. A lot of us have been like socially isolated and so it is a little scary. I think a lot of people are hungry for more social connection but coming into that too, you said, you do matchmaking and relationship coaching, so not just maybe meeting people and connecting with say friends, but how have you found dating now, like coaching others are matchmaking now versus before the pandemic? Is it different? Are people approaching it differently or feeling differently about it? [DR. FRANKIE] I'd say folks are more cautious now. They are really, I mean, many are feeling lonely and they're motivated to put themselves out there. They're trying to, but the dating apps are really hard. I think that is something across the board that most people can agree with. So it just makes, when you think about the pandemic and meeting strangers through a dating app, which is the go-to way people date today, it feels like everything with the pandemic ends up making you feel like it's harder, things feel harder, so dating feels harder. But you brought up, just going back to what you said, something earlier, which was a really good point that I want to expand on for a second is when you were in college, you were all there for like, there was commonality and as we get older, it's like, it's hard to meet people when you're not on a university campus. So we have to put ourselves out there. It's helpful to at least put yourself out there in a space where there's common interests, because then it's easier to connect. So if you're into cycling or you're into art or like to join a group or you're a voracious reader or you want to be in a book club, finding things that are of interest to you because you're going to meet people who have similar interests if you put yourself out there. So that makes it easier. It takes some of the pressure off. So yes, but going back to what you said, jumping around, I just wanted to throw that out there, but dating now is just more difficult. People are more cautious. [DR. CRISTINA] I can see why. I brought up the word emotional intimacy and communication connection. I don't know how you've been finding it, but I think having a little bit more social isolation, people struggle a little bit more now with knowing how to communicate effectively or being able to emotionally connect. At least with the people I work with, a lot of people were struggling with their relationships. So they did tend to get triggered and turn back to their relationship with food, for comfort or into their eating disordered behavior for all sorts of different reasons. But somebody's coming into recovery or no longer using food for comfort or for their coping mechanism and now it's like, okay, now how do they start connecting with people again or no longer using food for an escape or something like that? But you have a different population of people, but regardless I think it can be an interesting thing to talk about. Like what does healthy communication look like? How do you establish communication that can bring emotional connection and intimacy between two people because we just talked about like surface level, like just going up to somebody and saying hi, but relationships can deepen and get really intimate. How do you even get to that point? [DR. FRANKIE] Vulnerability. Back to that word that gives people, causes them to be like, it gives you a little, some people have a visceral reaction. So the word vulnerability. If we can show some vulnerability when we're trying to engage with somebody new, it allows them to also be vulnerable. It gives them permission to share something that's true and real and deeper than the surface level stuff. You have to dive a little bit deeper to feel connected. If you just talk about I know the superficial stuff, it's harder to connect. I think if you're willing to show some vulnerability, even if it's around like stating it like, oh, I feel anxious being out here because I haven't gone out in like two years and this feels a little hard, but I'm doing it and I'm happy I'm her but at the same time I feel anxious that's vulnerability right there. Then the person is going to respond. They're going to, can they relate to that? Maybe they feel the same way. Then you're getting to some depth. [DR. CRISTINA] Reciprocity. Really like what you're sounding like is really trying to figure out where you two have commonality so that you can find people you connect with and relate to because that's important. You don't know who you're going to relate to and have things in common with, unless you start having those conversations and open up a little bit more. [DR. FRANKIE] Yes. So I would say don't allow fear to dictate the choices that you make. You have to acknowledge, okay, I'm afraid, I have fear here and my thoughts around this fear, like you had mentioned earlier could be a cognitive distortion. Like we're thinking in the very worst or we're very black and white in the way that we're thinking about it. Then going to, how likely is this going to happen? Like my biggest fear, how likely is it that that's going to actually come to fruition? If it's not likely and you recognize that you're engaging in cognitive distortions, pick yourself up and commit to doing something that scares, that thing that scares you. Even if it's in baby steps, baby steps amounts to over time, it's big steps. We have to start somewhere and you want to start at a point where you're going to be successful and you're not going to overwhelm yourself. So set realistic, reasonable goals that you can achieve. [DR. CRISTINA] You brought up an interesting topic. I think that the way people go about dating now it's these apps and it's not really, I mean, I guess people can say it's based on like some level of communication, but I think initially it's not really. People aren't starting out by just having long phone conversations or anything like that. That can be scary because you don't really start out with that level of connection. I mean maybe some people will say like, oh no, we texted or phone called or emailed or whatever for long time before we actually met but even at that, it's different than when you actually meet in person or face to face. You're a matchmaker, like what do you find is the difference between people that meet, maybe say first in person versus on an app? Do you see any difference or what's your take on that? [DR. FRANKIE] That's a great question. I don't see a difference whether they meet on an app or they meet in person. There is a difference when there is somebody that is mutual that they know in common, whether there's accountability. That is a difference. So if I were at an event where I met somebody that my friend knows there is a different comfort level there that does not exist. wen I show up at a coffee date with somebody I met on Hinge, different level of right from the beginning, from the outset different level of trust and comfort. When there's no association to anybody that and you're meeting as total stranger that you've met, that you've connected with off of a dating app, you're going into it, more likely than not you're going into it more guarded because you don't know this person at all really. They could be somebody totally different than who they are portraying themselves to be on a dating app. This exists. There are cat fishers. We are fully aware that there's a lot of behaviors out there that are harmful that we need to be wary of. [DR. CRISTINA] That's interesting. So do you find that just having that level of trust will lead to having somebody be more vulnerable from the get go and maybe having things be more, I guess them connecting much more easier? [DR. FRANKIE] Absolutely. They are more open to connecting. They are more relaxed. They're better able to show who they are. They can show that vulnerability, there's somebody that feel that they feel connected to, that knows this person so they feel safer. [DR. CRISTINA] That's interesting. It's like what's going on in someone's mind about this person already versus like what you said, like, I don't even know the statistics on how many people are really not who they say they are cat fishing. I mean, certainly you hear people say, oh yes, we met on an app and now we're married. So I mean definitely a lot of people on the apps are who they say they are. They're successful. I mean, like you said, that's how people meet now but it's, you said that fear is so powerful. What somebody has in the back of their mind of what if is just so powerful. [DR. FRANKIE] Yes. You're just going on, you're choosing to trust them, going on their words. There's nobody that can vouch for them. I mean, and if you've had a bad experience, that's going to color your future experiences if you not careful, speaking of automatic thoughts. So if you go on a date and you get catfish one time, it only takes that one time that then you become the next time you put yourself out there, you're going to be more guarded. You're going to be feeling a little paranoid maybe, but it's healthy to have some paranoia because you just got catfished. You just showed up at a restaurant and the person looked nothing like their photos. Maybe their photos were 10 to 15 years old and now you're like, wow, this person, that is the person but not really, it's not the person today that I'm meeting. Then you're guarded. You go into the next day, I'm fearful. Is that going to happen to me again? Do I have to sit through the next hour and a half with somebody that, a lot of people don't know how to get up and say assert themselves and say your photos didn't accurately represent you. I can't sit here. You know what I mean? They have a hard time. They don't want to hurt somebody's feelings. Most people really don't want to hurt another person. So they endure that and it's a little bit traumatic, I'd say. [DR. CRISTINA] Well, that's such a good point because I was bringing up the word assertiveness before. I mean, what does stop somebody from just putting themselves first and setting up a boundary and saying I'm not comfortable? This is isn't okay with me because it does have such an impact rather than enduring it and maybe having it affect them going forward with future potential mates. Just being able to say I'm not feeling comfortable. This isn't right. You kind of deceived me. I think we need to call it a night. [DR. FRANKIE] I mean, it's dishonest. It's a lie. They've lied. That's not actually what they look like. If they put a photo up and they say, this is a photo of me fly fishing 15 years ago, then that's fine but that's not what I'm talking about. They've misrepresented themselves, they've lied right from the beginning. So this is not how you want to start a relationship with somebody that's been dishonest from day one. So yes you are worthy enough. You do not have to sit on the date more than another second to let them know, hey, you weren't honest. I don't want to waste your time nor do I want to waste my time. I wish you the best of luck, but I can't stick around to this date, take care. [DR. CRISTINA] You're bringing up something really important, I think, which does lead into emotional intimacy, which is like values and relationships. Like what are the components that make up a healthy relationship that can lead to emotional intimacy. And certainly, honesty and trust are so huge. If you don't have those, this is not going to work. [DR. FRANKIE] Number one, so if you're starting out, this is your first day and they lied it's over, game over, move on. [DR. CRISTINA] And I know, okay, so all you people out there that are people pleasers, I know you're out there, it's like, oh, but, I hear this. I say I'm going to make a yes button. It's the second chance like, yes, but we had such a connection or yes but, come on. They probably didn't have any new pictures. Or I'll give them another chance. What would you say to that? [DR. FRANKIE] Why are you giving them excuses? This is, I mean, when it comes to dishonesty, I feel like that's a deal breaker. I do. I think that that's, I mean, there's a good example where it makes sense to me. So there are definitely people that feel like they have to lie about their age on dating apps because we get stuck on hard numbers. So like 50 you might, you might date somebody up to age 49, but if they're 50, now you're going to put the parameters on your search criteria to stop at 49. Say, this person is like easeful and whatever and they're 50. Now you just actually will never see this person that could be the love of your life, could be your soulmate. So there are people that end up feeling like they have to lie, so they don't get filtered out. Because there are limitations with dating apps. So you're trying to figure out how do I make this work for me? In that case, I can understand the yes, but if they, either in the context, in the body of their profile, they mention something like an asterisk, hey, my actual age is 50, but I put down 48 or 47 because I didn't want to be ruled out whatever. Or on the first date you say it, ideally you would put it in the body of your profile. [DR. CRISTINA] I mean, and I guess you bring up a good point. There are those parameters that people can't get around, like distance you might be like 0.5 miles away from some area. Then that makes a whole difference or something. [DR. FRANKIE] Because it's not totally honest, but then you can, it makes sense. Logically speaking, it's like, if you are somebody who feel like you could date somebody who's younger and that's what you want, you want to give it your best shot and you get there's a disclosure in the content in the body. Fine. [DR. CRISTINA] So, I mean it's a little wild, but I do still hear success stories using dating apps. But I think you got to kiss a lot of frogs so with that, just because you have a negative experience doesn't mean that you throw in the towel, you go, okay, that was one person I'm going to pay attention to the flags and I'm going to have my eyes wide open and I'm going to listen to my gut, my intuition. So many of us don't listen to it. It's a second brain so let's listen. If it's just our fears telling us to avoid it because we're afraid of rejection, which who's not afraid of rejection, I'm afraid of rejection. Are you? [DR. CRISTINA] I think so. You're human. Everybody's human. [DR. FRANKIE] Yes. [DR. CRISTINA] But I think that's an interesting thing. Like I hear so people saying I'm so worried they're going to like me or like what they think of me and I hardly ever hear anybody going like, yes, I'm going in wondering what I think about them or they could match for me and looking the other way. I think that's to your points, people are so forgiving and so like they just overlook so many things because of that fear of rejection. They're so worried. Like, am I going to get the second date? Or do they like me? They're not asking themselves, what do I think about this person? Are they a good fit for me? [DR. FRANKIE] Do they match up to what you want? [DR. CRISTINA] I think that could reduce a lot of anxiety. Actually, if you go in with that attitude where then the other way around is like, are you good enough? Because I think that's a core belief that many people have, if I'm not good enough, then that leads into a lot of fears, especially with dating or connecting to people. [DR. FRANKIE] Totally. That actually makes me think of flipping the script around like job interviews. I felt so much more confident when I realized that actually wait a minute, I'm interviewing them as much as they're interviewing me. I would show up with so much more confidence after I reframe that and recognize like I'm an asset. I am worthy of like, yes. I'm not just waiting for them to choose me. Oh I get to choose them. [DR. CRISTINA] If you're going to work there for hours and hours and hours a day and a week, and probably spend more time there than at home and other people it's good attitude to have, like what's this place like? [DR. FRANKIE] What do you have to offer me? Why should I choose to work for you other than this other company or a different area? Why should I choose to work for you? I mean, really, that's like you're interviewing them. So it's the same, it's like walk into those dates feeling like, even if you don't feel it, how about this? Just you act as if. You walk in and like I got this. I got plenty to offer and I'm worthy of a quality, honest, good, good person, kind person, caring person. [DR. CRISTINA] So what do you, okay, I get this question all the time from people. So Dr. Frankie, you are the experts here, people say, well, what if I'm not physically attracted or feel the chemistry right from the get go? Can that build over time? People are like, no, they're so nice. They have all those qualities. They're trustworthy. They're honest. They're kind, they're caring. We get along. We have so much in common, but that's just not there. Can that build [DR. FRANKIE] Great question. This is such a good question. I get this question all the time. [DR. FRANKIE] Basically, if you believe that chemistry can grow, then it can, and it will. If you tell yourself the spark has to be there, either it's there instantly or it's not, then that's what will be for you. What I have found is that people who are open, like I said to it growing it most definitely can and will grow. Not in every case, but you want to give it a chance. So the way I describe it is if you are in someone's company and you feel good in their company, you're not feeling necessarily chemistry or traction, but your body feels good because you always want to check in with your body because it gives us a lot of information. If you have that and you're interested in what they have are saying, like you're enjoying their company, go on a second date, go on a third date. Maybe even go on a fourth date. You are not guaranteeing anything. When you do that, you are not in a relationship with them. You are dating. So until you have a conversation about exclusivity, you are dating. So just assume they are dating other people and they should assume you are dating other people unless you communicate and have a conversation about it. You are there to get to know this person. You won't know somebody in on a first date and you won't know them on a second date. With every date, you continue to learn about them. Be open to the possibility of their personality making them more attractive to you, their intelligence making them more attractive to you, their outlook on life, their mindset, making them more attractive to you. There's so many things that make people more attractive, enhanced attraction that if we're open to it, it can absolutely develop. But it absolutely won't if you tell yourself this bar has to be there and if it's not there instantly then forget it, especially as we get older. We've been through shit. I mean I'm 45. I've had plenty of relationships. I've had long term, short term. It's just, we become more guarded with time. Even if we actively work on staying open and available emotionally. So I want to challenge you all out there to be open to the possibilities if you give it a chance and not foreclose immediately when the chemistry isn't there instantly. [DR. CRISTINA] Right because I'm sure you've seen it too where the chemistry's so overwhelming in the beginning that people overlook the other parts that are important and think that's like love at first sight or this is my person. I don't know what you've seen. Maybe you could tell us, what happens there? [DR. FRANKIE] Oh, it flies off the rails really quick. I mean that passion, excitement, it's like a drug. All the endorphins and the dopamine and serotonin, all those chemicals are overwhelming us in such a insanely euphoric way, but what happens in those situations I have found is that often we're like repeating a pattern. We are drawn to this person. These are old patterns and that's why the chemistry is so insanely intense and that person ends up presenting all the behavior, like you're drawn to that. It's familiar and this is why there's such an amazing connection and it blows up in massive flames. So sometimes when we engage with people and we're dating with people that we don't have chemistry with, it's because they are not falling into the patterns, the behaviors maybe as very important in our childhood or important people we've dated that may have been not good for us. It's boring and it's not familiar. So it's not that interesting. It doesn't feel like you're at home. You arrive at home with somebody you're like, oh, I feel at home with them. Why do you feel at home with them? Because you've been there before just in a different body. You follow me? [DR. CRISTINA] So you're saying is they're repeating patterns of relationships that got them where they're at now, which is not in a relationship? [DR. FRANKIE] Exactly, yes. So recognize that when it feels like, oh my God, this is like, I feel this is a person I'm already feeling in love with. We don't fall in love, falling in love doesn't happen instantaneously. Doesn't happen. It takes, I don't want to, I mean, there's a lot of chemicals that get to create in the brain that make you feel like you're in love, like oxytocin. It makes you feel these amorous feelings, but no, you're not in love. You're just feeling them. You have to recognize these are chemicals in my body and I'm attracted to this person because probably there's a lot about them that's reminiscent of someone or several people from my past. I'm not still with those people so maybe this person isn't exactly right for me. [DR. CRISTINA] Well, and I think that right there is exactly right. This idea of this perfect person or this ideal partner and I think that's clouding the world too. Having so many options on these apps and having so many apps I think is interesting. I also think there's been, maybe you could tell me what you think, but seems like there's been this influence with all these reality shows of one person dating I mean, seemingly really awesome, amazing "perfect people" and them having a choice of choosing between 25, 30 perfect people and this idea of, oh yes, there can be one truly perfect unicorn out there or perfect person and okay, well, if this one doesn't work out, there's hundreds of more, hundreds of other apps out there people are just like scared to settle or commit or what if there's a better person, a better option around the corner? I don't know what you're finding with this now, but I think that's happening a little bit. [DR. FRANKIE] Yes, like they're addicted to the swipe. There's a lot of that behavior where it's just, I mean, we're being told we deserve it. You deserve better, you deserve the best. Now actually you can work to find "the best." There is no such thing as perfect. We're all flawed. The question is whoever you connect with, are you able to tolerate the flaws that come with them? The only way to really know what those flaws are is to spend some time with them. To assume that somebody who shows up in a package, their appearance, they look perfect to you, you got to know that they're not perfect and they're going to have flaws and it's going to take some time to figure out what those flaws are. So I think we're in a loop and we continue to feel lonelier than ever before, studies show and it's partially because of this like shopping mentality. We're also overwhelmed, over stimulated. Like I just got on a dating app. I don't even, I can't keep the people straight. It's too much information coming at me, but they don't even feel like real humans. It's so disconnected. I'm judging them based on photos when most people are not photogenic. I'm not going to lie to you and tell you, oh if all the photos to me are some I'm not finding attractive and their profile, what they wrote sounds great, I'm still not going to respond to them or I'm not going to reach out to them because those photos are scaring me. That looks like somebody that there's no way I'm going to be attracted to. I don't want to have to reject them. But most people don't really look like their photos. They better in person. I know that that's a fact. I've been doing this work 20 years, but I still get in my head. I'm an expert professional. So it's like a blessing and a curse. It gives us all this access to people, but then we have too much control over swiping, like you said, right around the corner. I could be missing out on what next. So you don't give the person in front of you or the persons in front of you enough of an opportunity to really show you who they are to connect with them because you have a snap judgment or you're seeing something immediately that doesn't, when you go on a first date with them, that makes you feel like, oh, there's got to be somebody better out there. I'm just going to not see them again. We just are on like a hamster wheel. [DR. CRISTINA] I think you brought up this whole thing about well we brought up the not feeling good enough. So I think like maybe there is that pressure people putting on like these fake pictures or filtered pictures or wanting, feeling the pressure like I have to put on something on my profile that's perfect. Because otherwise people are going to swipe on me and not give me a chance. I can see why this day and age with all these apps that the other apps that give people access to filtering and altering their photos, why they would put something other, that's not necessarily accurate because they're scared, like, no, one's going to give me a chance and really get to know me because other people are filtering their pictures and other people are altering their photos so if I don't, what's going to happen. To me, that's very scary because then the message is like, I'm not good enough. It's going to mess with people's body image. It's going to mess with their self-esteem. Especially for the people that are listening, who have body image issues to begin with or had them, that's scary to me. It's like, what's the message we're sending out here. People aren't really connecting in a really human natural way and that could lead to what you're talking about, the anxiety of getting on the first date and actually meeting the person. If you know the photo you put out there was filtered or altered or whatever, it's like, oh my gosh, that could play into somebody's mind as well, oh my gosh, like I know this was a filtered photo. What are they going to think when they really meet me? [DR. FRANKIE] For sure. Then you're really going to get rejected. That's going to backfire. 99.9% of the time if you're putting up a filtered photo and you show up, you go it on your first date, you're going to get rejected. Like why? That's not fair. That's not love. That's not loving yourself. Don't do that to yourself. Be authentic. Most people want to connect with somebody who's honest, real and authentic. So save yourself the trauma, the pain and the suffering that will come from putting up a photo that does not accurately represent you. I'm talking about, they need to be this year. If they're not from this year, they're not current. You need to put a note at the bottom of it. You want to be honest, you're starting, this is the beginning of a foundation of our, think of it that way of a relationship potentially with somebody. Start with honesty and authenticity and love yourself. Be compassionate and kind to yourself. Don't put yourself in a position where you're going to get rejected and shamed. Promise me, I know I can't see all of you out there, but please, please, please don't do that. [DR. CRISTINA] If nothing else, if you're so anxious and nervous, that's going to play into things too. So you're not going to know what's really going on if the date didn't go well. It's probably because you're nervous wreck, not acting like yourself. So that's not good either. [DR. FRANKIE] And know that you, most likely you look more attractive in person. Just know that. Most of us do a very small percentage is very photogenic and then in person it's a little bit, but that's rare. Most of us look better in person. [DR. CRISTINA] I think your point was well taken. Whatever you put in your profile is really what is important. It's like, someone's going to look and see who is this person? I want to meet them because they've got all this cool stuff going on. It's like, don't sell yourself short. If somebody really connects with you because you put an authentic photo of yourself and you're authentic in your profile, that's the important part. People swipe each other because all that's there, perfect. [DR. FRANKIE] Totally. Yes. I have certainly swiped, which is match. I want to match with them. Folks who like their photos are questionable, but they're real. If there's a filter, there's no way in hell I'm swiping right because it's already dishonest. I can tell when they're filters. So I have been convinced by what they said about themselves, even when their photos were not like, I wasn't sure that I would be attracted to them I have swiped right on them. So be honest, show your personality in those profiles. Don't try to create a profile that looks like everybody else's profile. That's not going to stand out. Just be you. You'll stand out on your own because you are original. You are you. Don't even look at other people's profiles. Create your own. [DR. CRISTINA] Good advice. Let's challenge that core belief that you're not good enough because you all are good enough and believe that, but it's true, everybody's unique. Everybody's special. Everybody's got their own reason that they're here because there's no other Dr. Frankie. [DR. FRANKIE] I don't think so. Don't be afraid to be different or weird because that makes you interesting. If everybody was so similar, everybody like long walks on the beach and be a little spoon, I mean, it's like, just be you and know that you are fantastic and there is absolutely more than one person out there for you. That's what I think. I get a lot like, oh, do I only have, is there only one soul made out there for me? How am I ever going to beat them? No, plenty of amazing people out there. Just put yourselves out there and be honest and real. You'll be good. [DR. CRISTINA] Well, Dr. Frankie, if somebody wants to work with you, they want to find you, they want to follow you, they want to see all your fabulous programs and all of that how do they find you? [DR. FRANKIE] I don't know. I have a few websites. You can find me on Dr. Frankie that's with I-E.com, so drfrankie.com. You can find me at littlegaybook.com. There's a few others, but you can find me those two places. I work nationally, actually internationally and I'm just about to get board certified as a sex therapist. I've been doing sex therapy for years, but going to be board certified, like more letters at the end of my name. Woo, no, I'm just kidding. [DR. CRISTINA] Do you have any upcoming programs or anything anyone needs to know about? [DR. FRANKIE] I do I have a program specific for matchmaking in the Northeast, that's going to start in about a month. So get on my website. That's for women interested in women. So I work within the LGBTQ+ community, but I also work with straight folks as well. That's starting up and then what else, I have single mingles that happen every month, all over the country that are basically speed dating events that are virtual, that used a dating algorithm that I created based on age. There's just different variables to help people meet each other that are wanting to meet each other. Those are super fun themed events and that you can learn about at littlegaybook.com. Again, those are women for women. I occasionally do events that I'm starting to do more and more for everybody, more inclusive, so straight gay, whatever, like poly event, for example. That's going to be something new. I've gotten so many requests for poly events, so with everybody. That's going to start happening. That's coming down the pike. So please join my mailing list because if you're into that, you'll want to get on there and find out when the events are posted. [DR. CRISTINA] Well, see your adventures on your dating app too. Thank you so much for all this great information. As always it's a pleasure to crack your brain and get the information you have. So thank you. Everybody all her information will be on the show notes at the website after the show. So if you didn't get any of that, it'll all be there. So don't worry about going and rewinding and getting all that. It'll be there. [DR. FRANKIE] Thanks for having me. So fun. [DR. CRISTINA] Thank you so much. All right, have a great rest of your day. [DR. FRANKIE] You too. [DR. CRISTINA] This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or any other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.