[DR. CRISTINA CASTAGNINI] Behind The Bite podcast is part of a network of podcasts that are good for the world. Check out podcasts like the Full of Shift podcast, After the First Marriage podcast and Eating Recovery Academy over at practiceofthepractice.com/network. Welcome to Behind The Bite podcast. This podcast is about the real-life struggles women face with food, body image and weight. We're here to help you inspire and create better healthier lives. Welcome. Well, hello everyone and welcome to today's show. I don't know about you, but I hear things all of the time from people that still give me the idea that people are still linking together what they eat and exercise as if they are not two totally separate things. I've even straight-up asked people what they think happens once they eat something. More often than not, I get told that they think that the food just sits there. It's like it sits there until they go exercise it off. If they don't go exercise it off, then they'll just gain weight. I know I've said this in podcasts before, and I will repeat it here again and I'll probably repeat it again in the future but food is fuel. It keeps us alive. We need it to keep all of our parts working. Our heart is constantly pumping, our lungs are constantly breathing, and those are just to name two of our many, many parts that all need fuel to keep us going on a continual basis. We don't plug in like cell phones, so we need our source of energy. Look, once we eat something like food, it's our fuel and it gets used immediately. It's just like when we go to the gas station, when our tanks empty, we fill up our tanks, and the second we turn on the car and start driving away, we immediately start using the gas we just put in there. The gas just doesn't stay in the tank so no exercise does not exist just to burn off the fuel you just ate. And you wouldn't know it based on how it's talked about in our society or by looking at the overabundance of ads out there for gyms or personal trainers. So I'm really thrilled today to have an open, honest discussion with our guest today. She's really ready to cut through the BS that's out there and just discuss exercise and why she's a personal trainer who does not have weight loss or achieving a certain look as goals for her clients. Amanda Brabec is a Boston-based spin instructor, personal trainer, and body image and mindset coach. She also hosts a weekly podcast, the Build with Brabec podcast, which explores the female experience through an anti-diet and body competent lens. She hopes through her work, both one-on-one with clients in a group or class setting, and through her podcast that she can help other women ditch diet culture and work to heal their relationships with food, exercise, and their bodies. All right, well, Amanda, welcome to the show. [AMANDA BRABEC] Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to chat. [DR. CRISTINA] Me too. This has been a long time coming and so very excited to talk to you because we're very like-minded in lots of ways even though we do very different things. So I'm very curious for you, if you would like to share a little bit about your, I guess, path toward how you got to this place in your career because it's a little bit different than I think most people, when I hear personal trainer, I have my own ideas and I think maybe some people listening might go, "Why are you having a personal trainer on here?" Would you mind sharing a little bit? [AMANDA BRABEC] Yes, no, and I love that because I feel like the majority of personal trainers that you see are maybe not so aligned with the messaging that you promote but I think that I would love to do what you do, but at this point in my life, I know I'm just not going to go back to school and do all the hard work that it takes to get there. So if my lane can be making the fitness industry a little more positive, I will take that. But so I guess going like way back ever since I really can't remember in my teenage young adult life and on, I had some really disordered patterns with eating and with exercising and some body dysmorphia and really just placing all my value on how small I was, which is no surprise because that's exactly what we're told for, however long. I had wonderful parents and like a super supportive and positive mother. It wasn't even like I had someone that was telling me to go on a diet or criticizing my looks or anything. But then I went to college and I felt like after that sort of felt like I worked through a lot of that and was doing a lot better and then I was working in marketing, totally different industry and sort of fell in love with group fitness and became a group fitness instructor in Boston and then just saw some really positive sides of the industry in terms of the type of class I was going to. Kick It by Eliza, I'll give her a little shout out, I no longer teach her method, but she has a virtual platform, so go check her out. It was the first fitness class or community that I ever felt didn't feel judgmental. It felt very positive and welcoming and empowering to women and so I jumped in ahead first and became certified in a bunch of other things and then became a personal trainer and quit my corporate job and have just been doing that ever since. But then I was sort of surprised when I was in it, fully immersed in it and made that transition really quickly, how much all of my body stuff came back. My eating stuff came back and it very much became this comparison, I guess, of, oh, well if I don't look like that trainer then no clients are going to want to work with me. If I'm not this size, if I don't have ab, if I don't whatever, no one's going to trust that I can give them the results that they're looking for, or no one's going to want to take my class. It became a very negative thing. Honestly, I don't want to like say good things about Covid, but silver lining for that stage of life was me being forced to seriously slow down. Obviously, like everything came to a halt. I was laid off from my job at the gym that I was working at, and it actually was the best thing to ever happen because I actually had so much alone time and time to actually reflect and think about why I felt this way for so many years and what me following along with all the other industry trends, I guess that you would call it in terms of wanting to look a certain way or think that my worth was just in that only hurts the client's that I love and takes away from the community that I want to foster. That was very long winded, but that's, I guess how we got here today. [DR. CRISTINA] But I could see how that interesting that you said that. I never really thought about it from the trainer's perspective in terms of the pressure you feel and like you marketing yourself and what people are coming to a trainer for, which is what I wanted to talk about today, which I hear all the time people saying well, at least the people I'm working with, they're looking for trainers that aren't focused on, I think much of what you're talking about people- [AMANDA BRABEC] And in my way. [DR. CRISTINA] Right, people looking for exercise to be something other than all this eating disorder stuff and about trying to look a certain way. Our diet culture society is always promoting weight loss and really tying exercise and losing weight together and making it about that and having to look a certain way and the goals of exercise being to attain a certain look like you said, instead of other goals for exercise. It's so sad and I've actually heard people say I'm looking for a trainer that looks like me so I cannot feel intimidated or I can feel like they can relate to me. So really interesting that you said you felt the pressure to have to look like this ideal so that people would want to hire you. [AMANDA BRABEC] I know, it is so interesting and I'm sure that so much of that was just like my own internal insecurities and things that I needed to work through, but it also was just, which is like, so Instagram, but was also this weird Instagram culture of like just all of these trainers and instructors and stuff posting pictures of them lifting up their shirt, showing their abs or like the gym selfies with the angles where their butt looks really big but muscular, like of course not. Then it became like, oh, do I have to do that to become successful? Is that what the success looks like? I think now that I've been in the industry longer and am more confident in my abilities and my beliefs and my values and all of that, I can see through all of the smoke and mirrors and the BS if you will. [DR. CRISTINA] Yes. Let's talk about that, cutting through the bs, like what have you realized is all the BS of it all that we're all seeing? [AMANDA BRABEC] I mean I think the biggest thing is just like we all know that what diet culture is and what it does, and now we're seeing this shift into wellness culture, which is the same thing, just more in disguise, because which is so the pattern of, if you look back to like, I don't know, however long ago, and the ads were literally like, you don't want to be fat, take this to be skinny. Then slowly over time they had to be more and more tricky with it because people didn't like that and saw through it and now we're totally on the other end. But it feels very, very similar with a lot of these trainers too. Like, they know that they'll get more clients or they'll be able to sell a program really quick if they are posting before and after pictures of these, a really big weight loss or a big transformation or promising, like, you'll get a flat tummy with this workout or you'll burn this amount of calories with this workout and they one can't promise that. Two, it's just very, that like low-hanging fruit, a very easy cash grab because people are still looking for that quick fix. You're preying on people's insecurities and I don't feel good about doing that marketing. I mean, that's really not even like how I would ever promote myself anyways but yes, I feel like it's a lot of this just showy and knowing what people's insecurities are because they have the same ones themselves. And then even if they aren't consciously doing it, even if they're just feeling like, oh, well this is what I see everyone else doing so like, I guess this is just what you do to get more clients or something. It's not good. [DR. CRISTINA] But, and I think you bring up a really good point is their marketing and preying on people's pain points. So when someone's in like a really down spot or maybe they're really feeling insecure about something on social media, it can be really easy to see post after post after post after post to get into a really bad spot and feel really insecure about yourself and then bam, you get sent this ad for personal trainers, like, look what I can do and bam, you're primed for okay this is the solution to make me feel better to help with this pain point that I'm feeling right now. That makes me sick when I know that that's going on first of all. [AMANDA BRABEC] Yes, and you don't even know like what's going on behind the scenes too. I mean, so many of these people are probably feeling the way that I used to feel in terms of like, I should do X, Y, and Z and I have to do this extra workout. When I was in that time of my life, I look back and first of all just have no idea how I was functioning with like, the little amount that I was eating and feeling the pressure to like show up at the gym that I was working at and have a presence of people seeing me taking the workout classes. There were times I was like taking two of these high intensity classes a day where now I'm like, I don't even know if I want to do one a week. It just, you don't really see what's going on behind the scenes with them. I mean, so many of them have these, maybe it sounds really mean, and I don't mean for it to come off that way because it makes me sad that those people are dealing with that, whether or not they realize it. But I think so much of the gym culture is glorified disordered eating, glorified disordered relationships with exercise with their bodies and all of that. They're measuring their food for their whole entire lives and missing out on really happy memories with their friends or their family or. [DR. CRISTINA] Yes, that's another interesting part. Like where's the line between a personal trainer helping somebody, maybe you learn the gym equipment or maybe helping somebody just be, I guess, motivated to just work out if they don't have their motivation themselves. I hear so often people say, "Oh, my trainer gave me a meal plan, or my trainer told me not to eat X, Y, or Z or that they told me to eat this and that." And I don't know too many personal trainers who are also certified in nutrition or nutrition counseling, but yet it seems like they're doling out a lot of information that when I hear it I'm like, wow, that's really not nutritionally sound. I don't know what you found working in the field, but are they also like nutritionist or are they just doling out information based on their own whatever they're eating? [AMANDA BRABEC] Yes, I mean, I think you see a mix of it. Like when I got my certification through NASM, and they really, really hammer home, they'll teach you very, very basic things about like how nutrition works in terms of what the macros are and micronutrients so you can maybe give people like super, super vague information. Not meal plans or anything, but they really hammer home like, this is out of your scope of practice, so try to network with people that you can then recommend your clients to because you are not qualified to do this. And I commend them for doing that. However, and I haven't taken the certification because I have no interest in giving people me plans because I'm not a dietician, so I don't feel like I would still have the qualifications to do it even with it but they also offer like continuing education, nutrition certification. I don't really know what exactly goes into it, but I would imagine it's not, it's like a virtual online little quick course and then you take a quiz at the end and then you have the certificate and feel like you should be able to give people mail plans. Like you don't still really have the education to be doing that. But yes, I do see some trainers that have those certifications and give out advice or maybe go a step further and give out meal plans, which I don't love. I've seen a lot of trainers do big group programs where they'll have one-size-fits-all workouts and meal plans, which I really don't love. Then there are the trainers or whoever, even like fitness influencers, which like, ugh, I roll a whole other conversation there but that just see all the wellness trends on Instagram and then try to push that stuff out themselves as like facts I guess. So yes, you see it all, but no, they should not be doing that. [DR. CRISTINA] Okay. I'm talking about this, this is not to trigger anyone and if anyone is getting triggered, maybe just acknowledge we're talking about something that is a very potentially triggering topic. As someone of myself who's had a history with the eating disorder, I know this can be a difficult topic but I think I want to bring awareness to it because it can be so easy to fall down the slippery of just having the best of intentions to maybe just try to get some movement going in your life or saying I just want to be "healthy" or whatever that means and suddenly find yourself down a rabbit hole of, oh my gosh, now I feel like I'm being told if I don't work out this much or this many minutes or do this much or you're feeling guilty or you may have hired some trainer that promised you to look a certain way or something and you're feeling like, "Oh, I'm not, I haven't achieved that look or I haven't achieved that goal and maybe it's my fault I'm not doing enough, or I'm not following this plan enough." So you just keep upping the ante saying like, "Okay, maybe I just need to do more. I need to eat less or I need to this, or I need to that," and blaming yourself. That can really get you down the hole of eating disorder and you don't even know it. So I'm glad Amanda's here to say, like you said, you can't promise those results and it's not your fault [AMANDA BRABEC] It's just like a diet. You didn't fail at a diet, the diet was designed to fail you. Like very much same sentiment, I hope I don't come across as really negative or like I'm tearing people down or something but I also know the risks that are involved with stepping beyond your scope of practice and using these different measures to gain business because it is such a slippery slope to, whether it's a full-blown eating disorder or just really like guilt-rid thoughts and or shame or like we have enough to deal with, we don't need to also bring that stuff into our lives. So if I sound negative, it's only because I'm passionate and I want to like protect everyone out there from all of that. [DR. CRISTINA] It's confusing. Like I go online just to see what's out there and it's toxic. There's a lot of posts out there people promoting "wellness" or it's for your health and I start reading their post and it's really, like you said, it's diet culture and disguise. So it's really, I want to bring awareness to that, like being really mindful to look at things with a critical eye and if there's promoting restriction or really rigid rules or promising you things that seem really lofty or showing a lot of body picks like you mentioned or things like that. Really ask yourself, is that about my wellbeing and is that about doing something that feels good in my body and just improving my overall, I guess emotional and physical health and wellbeing or is that something else? Because when you're showing pictures and you're showing very rigid restrictive plans and you're cutting out food groups and you're doing all this stuff, that's different. [AMANDA BRABEC] Yes. No, I had I guess you could call her a nutrition expert. She just didn't go the like clinical traditional route. She just studies nutrition and has a bunch of different degrees and does a lot of research which is amazing because so much of this stuff just really isn't researched. She brought up a really good point of like, in terms of fitness influencers or whoever it is, if you're seeing someone that is presenting a problem to you that you didn't know that you had, for instance, like I don't know if you want to talk about green juices or something; they're like, "Oh, well you're gut health or whatever it is that like, you didn't know you needed to be worrying about that," or it's like a very vague thing like, "Oh, it's good for your gut." Well can you elaborate? But if they're identifying or presenting this problem that you didn't know that you exist, that it existed, and at the same time solving that problem for you with something as simple as like a juice or something like that's a giant red flag. Such a good point. And yes, look at it critically, if you can go to their website and find their certifications and if they don't have them listed, like don't listen to them. Or ask them, just be critical because there's so much. It's just a giant rabbit hole down there on the internet. [DR. CRISTINA] Well, and I think even the way we're talking about it, we're still connecting food and exercise, like they're one and the same and that's my biggest beef, is like, can they be two separate entities because they really don't need to be tied? I think that's part of the diet culture too, is they don't need to be. So if we take that apart from it and just look at movement, I don't even want to call it exercise, like yes, our bodies we're meant to move. Like, we're biological beings that move. What is the purpose of exercise? Because if you do a Google search so many things come up where it's like about exercise for, like we've talked about weight loss, exercise for looking better, exercise for all these other things, but at what point is exercise? Like, does somebody want to hire you as a personal trainer exercise for health, like maybe preventing osteoporosis or better heart health or being able to get better functional fitness. What I mean by that is like, I want to lift my groceries from the car into the house without feeling strained or I want to be able to walk upstairs without being winded or I want to lift my grandchildren or I want to go to Disneyland and walk around all day and not be hurting at the end of the day. Or just things like that, like being able to live and exist in the world, that's what I'm talking about. [AMANDA BRABEC] Yes, 100%. I feel like thinking about fitness that way, obviously it's a whole mindset shift and if you're not able to decouple movement or exercise with weight loss and all that at first don't get down on yourself very much like how body positivity can feel really scary and not genuine because you're not going to feel positive every single day. Like, that's okay. We've been taught for so long that exercise is the first part of what you were saying but if you can start to think of it like that more and more, it becomes so much more approachable, so much more fun because it's just not so serious. The stakes aren't as high. You can fit it into your life. It doesn't have to be like, I feel like there were so many times in my own life and I hear people at the gyms or whatever it is that they're tied to their fitness tracker, their Apple watch or whatever, and they leave the workout and they're like, ugh, well that didn't count because they didn't burn enough calories or whatever it was. Imagine if you could like totally walk away from either a workout or a walk or whatever it is and just be like, wow, my mind feels clear. I feel like I have more energy. That just felt really good. Now I'm in a better mood. Think about all that other stuff that you gain from just moving your body however. That's amazing. [DR. CRISTINA] Yes. So I'm actually curious, do you ever get people or did you ever get people who called and didn't want the diet culture goals, who just wanted maybe to feel better or to de-stress or like I find myself winded walking up the stairs. I want to not have that in my life anymore. Like, did you ever get calls like that? [AMANDA BRABEC] Yes, 100%. It's funny because a lot of the times when I get like personal training inquiries, it starts off as very weight focused and like, oh, I have this event and I really want to lose however many pounds. But then like, the more we talk and we dig deeper, it is a lot of that. Like, I walk to work and I'm trailing behind my boyfriend and I'm huffing and puffing or a lot of the, like I just want to feel like I can move or I want to feel like I can walk into a gym and not be embarrassed or afraid that I'm going to look stupid because I don't know what I'm doing. I feel like once you dig a little deeper in the conversations, they'll get there. But yes, I definitely have a lot of clients that just have been intimidated for so long by the whole culture of it all. I feel like, especially being in a major city, there's, boutique fitness has really taken off, which is amazing because there are so many options, but at the same time it can have that negative feel to it where everyone's wearing their perfect matching sets and everyone looks a certain way or whatever it is or the trainers are saying things that just make you feel like crap because you have to modify or something. So a lot of women will come to me and just be like, I've never liked working out and I just want to figure out how I can start liking it. [DR. CRISTINA] Yes, that's a whole nother level, just being able to go somewhere where you feel comfortable and you feel okay, I can feel good being here. I can feel good in my body, I can feel comfortable and I walk away and feel better. [AMANDA BRABEC] I feel like so many people just, and at no fault of their own think that exercise just fits into this little box. But I would definitely challenge people to, especially if you're someone that, like I said, has never liked exercise or like, I'm just not like the workout type of person or I've tried workout routines and I always fall off within a couple of weeks and I get laid down on myself very similar to you, not like the diet cycle. I would challenge you to really think about, even reflect back to your childhood and like, can you think about times where you had so much fun or you felt really like connected to your body or really alive? So many people would be like I loved to dance and I don't know when I stopped doing that, but I'm like, okay, great. Go on YouTube, find a dance workout, if you feel comfortable enough, find a dance class wherever you're at. Or some people think that, oh well I have to go to this workout class or else the whole doesn't count thing where it's like, start by going for a walk. Find a good playlist that's going to pump you up or make you feel good or find a good, a podcast, hello, or audiobook and just go outside, spend some time in the fresh air. That totally counts. [DR. CRISTINA] I think you said something that makes it about what works for you, what feels good for you instead of and shifting the focus away from all this diet culture. Something clicked for me once I heard somebody say, yes, I just like to do something that just feels good in my body, like makes my body feel good and I remember this is when I was in my disorder and I'm going, "What? What do you mean, what does that mean for me?" It always felt like it was this punishing thing that was like, I have to do it. It was so like, like you said, I have a fitness tracker. Back then they didn't exist, but it was like I did certain number of minutes and certain this and certain that. I was like, well that's interesting. What do you mean it feels good? What is that? [AMANDA BRABEC] Yes. 100%. Even think about the way that we tend to talk about our bodies in terms of working out or whatever. It's like, oh, that class absolutely killed my body. Or like, it murdered me. Or like all these like very, very intense things where like, what if you love to work out feeling really energized? What would that feel like? That doesn't mean that you're not working or working hard, but it doesn't have to be about this thing like, I am going to absolutely tear my body apart. That does come from that punishment mindset. [DR. CRISTINA] What was that quote, "no pain, no gain." I just remember that. Oh, that's a horrible statement. That's awful. [AMANDA BRABEC] I was even looking through, I feel like funny timing, I was building out a little freebie thing on Canva actually, very similar to this, just ways to create a sustainable movement routine that you actually will like. I was trying to find a template that I liked and so I'm searching workout or exercise or whatever within the templates and every single one, every single one were these like super, super dark colors and very intense pictures. There were so many sayings like that. I think no pain, no gain was an actual saying on there. There was another one that was like very similar to that. I can't remember what it was, but I just looked at it and was like, I'm in the wrong. Why does it have to be, I want to go back and look, it's going to really bug me for the rest of the day what the saying was. It was like drain insane or remain the same or something like that. [DR. CRISTINA] Oh my gosh. [AMANDA BRABEC] Yes, and I was like, and a picture of a guy like throwing around some giant weights and he is looking really angry and everything, like, this is why no one thinks that fitness is approachable. [DR. CRISTINA] Well, yes. Gosh, it's just torture. [AMANDA BRABEC] Right. It doesn't have to be torture. Some days it might sort of feel like that. I mean, I get it. Not every day is going to feel like rainbow butterflies, but also it doesn't have to be torturous. [DR. CRISTINA] Oh gosh. I think there is that component to it. It almost, whether you're in, like it's disordered, you feel like it's punishment for something you just ate. So if that's happening, really sit back and go, "Whoa, I'm not exercising to feel better. I'm exercising because I'm punishing myself. I'm trying to compensate for something." This isn't about just exercise to feel better or to improve my mood or to come back home and be like, "Oh, I feel so much less stress, or I just feel better." [AMANDA BRABEC] Yes, totally. I mean, I feel like it's very similar to learning gentle nutrition with intuitive eating or learning how to listen to your body. Like that's something that we push down and ignore for so long that it might take a while for you to be like, what would feel good on my body today? What does that even mean? But you can get to a point. And I feel like it's really similar to something that you talk about the cognitive distortion thing, like having those thoughts of like, I need to go to the gym because I ate whatever last night or I did whatever over the weekend, so I need to now restrict and I need to punish myself in the gym the next morning. And you can catch those thoughts and talk yourself out of it a little bit. You don't just have to run with it every time. [DR. CRISTINA] Yes, like, I should do this or I have to do this, or I can't eat today, or I ate that, so now I need to go to the gym. If you're having those thoughts, like people don't, man, I've said this on podcast before, but people don't realize that you can use exercise as a purging technique. People think purging is just like self-induced vomiting or things like that but you can run down the slippery slope of really using exercise as a way to compensate and not really realize you're using it to compensate for what you ate or giving yourself permission to meet later, which absolutely be mindful and like you said, like are you doing that? Again, I'm doing this podcast with you. I want to bring the awareness of is it a struggle for you to just focus on exercise and movement separate from what you're eating? Because I think that's a challenge I want to bring up to everybody is can you do it? Can we stop tying them together? They're not supposed to be connected. [AMANDA BRABEC] Totally, totally. I think, yes, it just takes the intention of slowing down and asking yourself those questions. Because so much of this stuff is just so normalized in our society and within diet culture and wellness culture and all of that, and it doesn't have to be a normal thing in your life. Like you feeling super negative and guilty and shameful and doubting yourself does not need to be the norm. It just takes some unlearning and intentional internal work. But one thing I would challenge you if you are feeling like, oh wait, maybe I am doing this to take a break from your fitness tracker, whether it's for a day, whether it's four, five days a week, whatever, and reflect, maybe journal on it and reflect on how your workouts feel different, how your thoughts are different around them. It's a small step, but it seems to be something that can be helpful just because so many people are so tied to those numbers. [DR. CRISTINA] Absolutely. I'm not a big fun of those trackers, I swear. [AMANDA BRABEC] Yes, I can't do it. [DR. CRISTINA] Because it makes it almost like, I don't know how to say this, but I got a, I really was hesitating getting an Apple watch. My mom got me one for Christmas because she was saying, "We need to get ahold of you. You shut your phone off all the time. I want to be able to call you." [AMANDA BRABEC] You're like, "Yes, I want to disconnect." [DR. CRISTINA] I couldn't shut off the alert of like, because I walked my dogs a lot. I couldn't shut off that alert that exercise ring closed or whatever. I was like the alert, I tried to shut it off, but it would go off at the most inopportune times. [AMANDA BRABEC] Or it's like, get up. [DR. CRISTINA] Stop. Be quiet. But that's another reason I didn't like it. It would be like I'm in the middle of a quiet place and even if my phone was on do-not-disturb, that thing would go off. [AMANDA BRABEC] Oh my gosh. Yes, I cannot give you any tech help there. Absolutely not. But yes, and it's so not black or white. Some people go through life and I am so envious of them not really being run by a lot of that comparison and those thoughts and they can be super neutral about like, cool, I did this workout on my Apple watch just telling me some stuff about it but all right, we'll file that away and whatever. But for so many other people, it really, really is not as peaceful as that, which is why I have the opinions that I have about them but it doesn't mean that it's bad to have one. Do whatever works for you, just like be mindful about it. [DR. CRISTINA] If you're not reaching, I hear this too, if I'm not reaching my 10,000 steps, I didn't have a good day and I'm going, I actually look this up, why the 10,000 steps became a thing and there's not much to it. I've read some blogs of people said I did it to see what would happen in my life. It's an arbitrary number that was just put out there, but now it's like a thing. So if anyone out there is beholden to this 10,000 step thing, also breathe, relax. That's a big lofty goal every day. It really is. [AMANDA BRABEC] It is, especially with so many of us working from home and everything still, it's like you can only pace around your living room so much. I mean, if you can get out for a walk, that's amazing, like so great for your mental health for whatever. But yes, I mean it's also one of those things, it’s like yes, there's not really a lot of research there. It's just somehow become a thing that we all feel like we have to do. There's so much of this stuff. [DR. CRISTINA] Like I said, be critical, question things and do things that work in your life that don't, if something's making you feel pressure and you're like, I have to fit this in, I must fit this in or you feel guilty or you feel bad, really question that. What's going on there? [AMANDA BRABEC] Yes, totally. If you're at a gym or you go to different classes or you see a trainer or something and the trainers are saying things that trigger those thoughts and saying earn your whatever, all those kinds of things. If the gym that you're going to, if their marketing is all about like you're going to burn X amount of calories in this class or promoting all of that very low-hanging fruit, praying on your insecurities, I would consider not supporting them anymore. But also more critically, like talking to someone if you feel comfortable and addressing it and being like actually, I think most of us would like really appreciate if you change some of your language because it doesn't make us feel good. Like a lot of people are just still tied to the very old school, like negative marketing trends. Challenge them a little bit. That's okay but also we, I mean I guess it's not like voting, but our dollar is our way to, I can't think of the word besides like, but with your dollar thing. But you can also hopefully if you live in an area with more choices, can find a place that might be a little bit more inclusive and welcoming and positive too. Or you can call me and we can do some virtual training if you're not in Boston. [DR. CRISTINA] Which became a thing too, during the pandemic. [AMANDA BRABEC] Absolutely, which is also positive. [DR. CRISTINA] Awesome. Well, speaking of which how can people get in touch with you or get ahold of you if they do want to actually have a conversation or do some work with you? [AMANDA] A little confusing because I just got married and changed my name, so now I'm like half changed and half not but my website is buildwithbrabec.com, that's B-R-A-B-E-C. My Instagram handle, there's a Build with Brabec podcast, and then my personal Instagram, which is still where I promote a lot of this stuff is Amanda__Driscoll. That's pretty much where you can find me. [DR. CRISTINA] Congratulations on getting married too. [AMANDA BRABEC] Thank you. Thank you. [DR. CRISTINA] All right, so any final last words or anything inspiring for people before we end? [AMANDA BRABEC] I would just love to reiterate again that fitness doesn't need to be intimidating and it doesn't need to be negative and it doesn't need to feel icky. Like there are people out there that can help you make it more of a positive experience and even if you feel like you're someone that's never been the exercise type and you've never liked it, you can still find ways to move that feel good and make you feel like you are living a healthier lifestyle, if you will. [DR. CRISTINA] Well thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate it. Hopefully people will walk away from this podcast realizing that movement doesn't have to be a horrible thing and it has nothing to do with diet culture. So thank you. [AMANDA BRABEC] Do what works for you. Thank you so much. This was great. [DR. CRISTINA] This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or any other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.