Have you struggled with body confidence? Are you a parent that judges their body in front of your children? Where do body image issues come from? In this podcast episode, Dr. Cristina Castagnini speaks with Cliona Byrne about building body confidence.

MEET CLIONA BYRNE

Cliona Byrne is a body confidence coach and she helps people from all over the world to boost their body image. So whether you are an adult, parent or teen, Cliona offers support and guidance to help people get comfortable in their body.

Visit Cliona Byrne's website and connect with her on Instagram, Pinterest, and LinkedIn.

FREEBIE: Get your Free Body Confidence Journal!

IN THIS PODCAST

  • How body image issues can begin in the home
  • Bodies change throughout life
  • Rewire your mind

How body image issues can begin in the home

We become aware of the fact that we are judged around the age of 10, and after that, we become aware of the conversations that happen in our home, and the culture around body image we have in our home. This could be commenting on other people’s bodies and being judgmental about other people’s bodies. (Cliona Byrne)
What happens in the home seems normal to a child, even if it objectively isn’t. If the guardians or parents of a child make comments about the child’s body and other people’s bodies, the child will learn that this is okay to do. If the guardians or parents of the child are judgmental and critical of their bodies in front of the child, the child will learn to judge and critique its own. How close friends and family act and talk about body image become the culture of that circle of people, and children who grow up in that environment will internalize those messages to be the truth or to be normal.
Every family has one. No family is exempt from this, and that’s where we develop our body image. It’s in that space of how we talk about bodies at home and our attitude towards bodies. (Cliona Byrne)

Bodies change throughout life

It is normal for your body to change. Through aging, genetics, hobbies, sports activities, lifestyle, giving birth and raising children, and going through middle age, all of these important life circumstances and events can shape and change you as a person, let alone how you look.
I hate the narrative of “bouncing back” or “getting your body back” as if your body ever went anywhere … there’s a lot of pressure with the concept of bouncing back, and that’s why I think we need to own the changes and be comfortable in the changes. (Cliona Byrne)
Your body will change. It is supposed to develop and change throughout your life. If you had a baby, it is unrealistic to expect your body to not look like it had a baby.
It’s not natural for us to stay the same. It’s not natural for us to never change. (Cliona Byrne)

Rewire your mind

Whose narratives are you internalizing? To which standard are you comparing yourself? Whose voice is in your head telling you how you should look and what “normal” is? Rewire your mind by tackling these societal norms and find out what you believe and what feels right to you, instead of living your whole life by someone else’s expectations. Go back and discover why you feel this way.
The more critical we are of other people, we spiral, and we become more critical of ourselves. They’re just the tip of the iceberg … being critical of other people impacts our body image and makes it worse. (Cliona Byrne)
Notice how you speak about other people because this can give you information about how you may feel about yourself as well. Start looking for the good in other people to learn to notice it in yourself.

USEFUL LINKS

MEET DR. CRISTINA CASTAGNINI

I am a licensed Psychologist and Certified Eating Disorder Specialist. While I may have over 20 years of clinical experience, what I also have is the experience of having been a patient who had an eating disorder as well. One thing that I never had during all of my treatment was someone who could look me in the eye and honestly say to me "hey, I've been there. I understand". Going through treatment for an eating disorder is one of the hardest and scariest things to do. I remember being asked to do things that scared me. Things I now know ultimately helped me to get better. But, at the time, I had serious doubts and fears about it. If even one of my providers had been able to tell me "I know it's scary, but I had to go through that part too. Here's what will probably happen...." then perhaps I would not have gone in and out of treatment so many times. My own experience ultimately led me to specialize in treating eating disorders. I wanted to be the therapist I never had; the one who "got it". I will be giving you my perspective and information as an expert and clinician who has been treating patients for over 2 decades. But don't just take my word for it...keep listening to hear the truly informative insights and knowledge guest experts have to share. I am so happy you are here!

THANKS FOR LISTENING

Did you enjoy this podcast? Feel free to comment below and share this podcast on social media! You can also leave a review of Behind The Bite on Apple Podcasts (previously) iTunes and subscribe!

Podcast Transcription

[DR. CRISTINA CASTAGNINI] Behind The Bite podcast is part of a network of podcasts that are good for the world. Check out podcasts like the Full of Shift podcast, After the First Marriage podcast and Eating Recovery Academy over at practiceofthepractice.com/network. . Welcome to Behind The Bite podcast. This podcast is about the real life struggles women face with food, body image and weight. We're here to help you inspire and create better healthier lives. Welcome. . Well, hello everyone. So I have discussed body on the show before, and it really is a topic that needs a lot of discussion because there are so many people who unfortunately struggle with body image issues. Not everyone has the same struggles or has them for the same reason. Body image issues are as complex as they are painful. But if you're someone who has body image issues, then you know firsthand just how much it can affect your life, all aspects of your life. Your confidence, self-esteem and feelings of self-worth are all negatively impacted. The more you think about what you should be doing to look better, the worse you feel. Maybe you miss out on life by putting off things like going on vacation or going to parties or dating. Maybe you don't allow yourself to buy new clothes, telling yourself you'll just wait until you finally look the way you want to. Or perhaps you refuse to be in any photos telling yourself you look awful and you'll just wait to be in them until you look right. The bottom line is that when you have a negative body image, there's something that's always bothering you. If you're listening to me right now and you can relate and you're scared you're going to keep feeling this way for the rest of your life then this show today is for you. If you're a parent and you're scared you're going to pass on those feelings to your kids then this show today is for you. Cliona is today we to talk about body positive parenting and so much more, believe me, so much more is clean a burn. She is a body confidence coach, and she helps people from all over the world to boost their body image. So whether you're an adult, parent or teen, Cliona offers support and guidance to help people get comfortable in their body. Cliona, welcome to the show. [CLIONA BYRNE] Thanks for having me. [DR. CRISTINA] So, this is obviously such a hot topic, body image, and I know I've done shows on it before, but what I really love about what you do is you work with parents who have maybe kids with body image issues, or maybe the kids don't have body image issues yet. I'm actually curious, how did you get started in doing this work? [CLIONA] So basically what happened was I was working one on one with adults, just anyone who had any sort of body image issues. So could have been anything, regards like uncomfortable in their body, regards weight or something about their appearance or anything. The more I worked with people, the more it started to click in my own mind where the problems were coming from. I think like one of the things we always hear is that we get bad body image from social media, from magazines, from all this stuff, but actually all of that's super secondary. That that's all the secondary stuff. The primary thing that happens is what happens, like the family culture in the home. So what I mean by that is everyone was talking to me about, okay, I stopped liking my body around the age of usually 10. It happened when, and they can actually remember when a family member said something to them and they could have been a comment on their weight or an example I often give is a man I once spoke to told me that his father used to comment on the fact that his ears were crooked. So even to this day, every time he looks in the mirror, he tilts his head to the side to make his ears even. That comment was what started it for him. So what happens basically is we become aware of the fact that we ourselves are judged around the age of 10. Then after that, we become really aware of the conversations that happen in our home and the culture that we have around body image in our home. So that could be commenting on other people's bodies, being judgmental about other people's bodies, our parents not liking their own bodies, our extended family and close friends not liking their bodies and how they communicate about it and restricting how we eat in certain ways. Like some families saying we don't eat this or naming some things as good or bad, or even having a family culture around, no one in this family can wear stripes because we all look awful in stripes. This is like a culture, like a body image culture. Every family has one. No family is exempt from this. That's where we develop our body image. It's in that space of how we talk about bodies a home and our attitude towards bodies. So there's the negative side, which means if the family has a negative culture, the kids are guaranteed to grow up with the same feelings and thoughts towards themselves. But if the family have a positive culture around body image, the kids will grow up with a positive feeling about their bodies. So that all clicked in my head from working with people and I realized, hold on, if there's any way to help kids with their body image, it's to go back to the source and help their parents with their own hangups. Because if the parents deal with their hangups and change the culture in the home, then the kids can grow up with the positive culture in the home versus the negative. That's what led me to starting my program, which is Body Positive Parenting because I teach the family about body diversity and accepting their own bodies and body positivity regards marginalized bodies and what that means, and body confidence and all this stuff. So it really sparked for me clicking, this is the real issue and the stuff that we are dealing with regards the media and stuff is secondary. Really working with kids when they're older or when they're teenagers and being like, you should like your body, it's too late. It can be reversed, but it's just, it's entering into the conversation too late basically. It's taking action a little bit too late. We need to start from when they're really young and be like, you're good enough as you are. You'll always be good enough as you are, have that attitude. [DR. CRISTINA] I mean, that's so insightful. I appreciate that you brought up something about body image with this man. You give us an example that it wasn't weight related. It was there's other body parts that people are very self-conscious about. That can be really debilitating whether it's the ears or the nose or some other aspect about them. I don't think that's discussed enough, especially, maybe even on my podcast. I think it's always assumed negative body images is about size and weight and it can be lots of different things. [CLIONA] Oh my goodness, yes. Like for me, when I was younger, I had really bad body image over two things. One was weight. That's one of the ones that is the most common. That's why we speak about it so much. But the second was because I had a crooked jaw. So you know how, like you can have like an overbite or an underbite? I had a side bite because I have to be original. So I had this side bite, which meant that my teeth didn't properly close on top of each other. So I always give the example of if I was eating a sandwich, I could somewhat bite into it, like the bread would be removed, but the filling would still be there. So I couldn't bite into things properly. My face was quite crooked and it really showed up in photos more so than in person. So there's very few photos of me as a teenager because I didn't let people take my photo and I felt so insecure about this. Now I did have to get it fixed when I was 20, but my face still has a bit of a curve to it and now I own it, but I felt so insecure about that. I didn't feel like anyone could relate to it because everyone else was feeling insecure about like to gain weight or I wish my whatever was more whatever. I was like, I can't eat a sandwich successfully and I'm not feeling great about that, but again, no one was talking about those things. I felt very isolated about it. So it could be crooked ears. It could be like the gap between your toes. It could literally be anything. What happens is if someone makes you feel bad about it. Usually what happens is in our own homes, is that our family members project their own insecurities onto us. So let's say, and this is super common and I'm sure a lot of the listeners would be like, yep, nodding along to this, if you had particularly a mother who was very concerned with her weight and very concerned with being slimmer maybe she would diet a lot. Maybe she would just talk about her body in a very negative sense and be like, oh, if I was lovely and slim, and if I was this and I was that, that gets projected onto us too. Often parents can talk about our bodies as if it's an extension of their own bodies. So by the time we become adults, we have like massive hangups regards our weight before we're even adults. It starts when we're kids. I remember feeling really bad about my weight as a young child. It probably started around 10, maybe 11. I started really feeling insecure about it. But that's because there was so many conversations going on at home about weight and dieting and all those things [DR. CRISTINA] That sounds like it was role modeled for you in the home and you were learning, you were hearing the conversation, learning like what's acceptable, what's good, what's bad, how other people felt about themselves. So where else did you get the messages about your body other than there? [CLIONA] Exactly. You have to consider too, like if your family members are saying this and saying their bodies aren't good enough, you're very likely to like that. Sometimes they say I'm not as good enough as I am and by the time you're know, you're like, how are you meant to consider yourself good enough? I think that's something that parents forget is that when they're being critical of their own bodies, they're actually also being critical of their own children's bodies. I often work with moms and they say to me like, oh, well I often say negative things about my body in front of the kids, but it's fine. It doesn't matter. They're gorgeous. They're perfect as they are. I'm like, no, they're taking in every word of that. They're taking in that my body, particularly if they birthed their children, my body that created you is not good. That's where you came from, but it's not good. You're half of me and I'm not good. So how could a child think mom says she's not good. I'm part of mom. How can I be good? There's a missing link in the logic there regards how we think we can say these things and it doesn't impact kids. There's always an impact. [DR. CRISTINA] So my big caution is anyone listening is going, oh my gosh, like they're blaming me. It's like moms always get blamed. I always worry about that because there are other factors, but I think what I'm hearing you say is it's important to be aware and mindful of what you say and how you demonstrate your own body image and how you feel about your own body does influence your child. It's not a blame thing. It's the awareness of what's your own body image? What are the things you're saying? What are the messages you're putting out there? Because that's important. [CLIONA] I's not even a blamed thing. This is why I always say to moms, it's not that you're being blamed. It's that it's time for you to wake up to the fact that you are a walking goddess. Like you are unbelievably amazing. You created life. Even if you didn't create the life, you were taking care of life, and that is such a huge thing. Your body created people, you created your own people. Men can't do that. That is so incredible. So for any woman to feel bad about stretch marks or the change in texture of skin or weight changes, it's a joke. When you think of it's like, how can you this goddess question yourself for a second and wake up in the morning and say I may have created life and I may be keeping them alive, but I'm trash. We need to wake up to the fact that we're worthy and we're good enough. Actually we deserve to wake up and feel good about our bodies as they are without having to change them and to realize that we are wonderful, we deserve to feel good about ourselves and we are worthy of having positive body image and not having to continue the emotional and mental drain that comes with feeling bad about yourself. [DR. CRISTINA] So this brings up interesting topic because, I work with a lot of women who, after having children, maybe they never had negative body image before, but there's a societal influence about like all this pressure for women after they give birth to get back to their pre-baby bodies and if you don't, something's wrong with you. There's a lot of stuff out there with these celebrities showing like six weeks postpartum. They look great in a bikini. I mean I hear these things and there is that pressure. I don't know if you work with women after they give birth and they really are struggling with their body image and feeling horrible about themselves. I don't know if you've experienced that. [CLIONA] A lot. Most of my clients are women who are not immediately after having a baby, but maybe like a year or two in. The changes are there and they're struggling to adjust to these changes. I really hate the narrative of bouncing back or getting your body back as if your body ever went anywhere, as if your body walked out the door and said, I'm done. That didn't happen. So I think there's a lot of pressure with the concept of bouncing back. That's why I think we need to, again, own the changes and be comfortable in the changes because all of these things that happen, they're part of being a woman. They're part of us being the graceful beings that we are. That is the feminine to create and be like this, essentially like a cauldron that's creating things that's what's happening in our bodies. So I think we need to allow ourselves to own it and remind ourselves too, of being a little bit more realistic because if you have a body, it's unrealistic to expect your body to look like it didn't have. If you had a baby it's unrealistic to expect your body to look like it didn't have a baby. That's ridiculous. It makes no sense. I always say to my clients, okay, if you are, imagine you're 80 years old and you're looking in the mirror, would you want to look like a 20 year old? Imagine if you met your grandmother and she was 80, and she looked like a 20 year old, would you be creeped out and be like, what's going on here? You're making me uncomfortable. The reason is because it's not natural. It's not natural for us to stay the same. It's not natural for us to never change. We know it's not natural because these celebrities who don't seem to age are spending an awful lot of money on having things cut and injected and all sorts of stuff done to them that is not natural. So getting your body back, bouncing back is nonsense, it is an absolute joke. Ask yourself would you have expected this of your mother or your grandmother or anyone else? No, because it's silly. It's silly to expect a body that had a baby to look like it didn't have a baby. [DR. CRISTINA] That's very well said, but I still know the pressures out there. So do you work with someone who's just struggling and really just can't get over that? [CLIONA] Yes, but usually it's a symptom of the problem. It's not a problem. So usually we have to go deeper and that depends on the client. It's one of the really common symptoms though, in the same way as feeling bad about your weight is a common symptom or feeling bad about aging is a common symptom. It all comes back to dealing with rewiring our brains and figuring out where does all of this come from in my mind? Where are the pressures coming from that I have to look a certain way or be a certain way. How do I get that inner critic of mind to shut up and stop telling me, I have to be this way and stop feeling like I have to be this like super person that doesn't exist and that I have to meet such a high standard that no one else has to meet. So we have to go pair it all the way back. There's no one, for this particular issue, regards feeling bad about your body after a baby, there's not one simple little switch you can just turn and it will change everything. It's more of a case of going back and figuring out why do I feel this way? Most of my clients are in this situation, all go through the same thing, which is while they were pregnant, they felt amazing about their bodies. It was the only time in their lives that they felt amazing about their bodies, because they suddenly were saying to themselves, I'm allowed to get bigger and getting bigger equals good. Then they're also like I have purpose. I have worse. This body of mine is doing something that is worthy and the world is like, oh, look at your big bump. Oh, you're so wonderful. Look at you just showing up here and being amazing. But because we have this narrative of bouncing back, all of that goes radio silent, even in our own heads. Instead of being like, I'm so wonderful, we all go back to like, oh, I'm just awful. I need to be the way I was before. So that's the one thing that's very common. I think the thing is that we need to remind ourselves is that if we were able to feel good about our bodies getting bigger and taking up space and existing, we know we can go back to that place because it does exist. We were able to do it once before we can do it again. It's just about figuring out how to get that space. It's doable. Everyone can do it. [DR. CRISTINA] I love that you're changing the narrative and perspective and helping people realize it's a mindset too. [CLIONA] Massively. Massively. [DR. CRISTINA] But I don't want to keep all the focus on the moms too. Do you work with the fathers or other family members and how they influence and impact kids too? [CLIONA] Yes. Again, when it comes to kids' body images, it's not just the moms. So moms please don't feel bad about what we're talking about. We're just using this as an example. It's everyone in the ecosystem, let's say. It's the grandparents, it's the aunts and uncles. It's the close family, friends. It's the cousins, whoever. But yes, so everyone comes into it and I work mostly with women. I do have men come to me too. There's stuff that I really had to dig deep when I started working with men because I knew everything from a female perspective. Same with people that are non-binary or trans. I had to really research and talk with people and say, okay, explain what you're going through to me so I'd really be able to emphasize as much as possible and be really in the moment as they're explaining things to me. I will never of course go through the same experiences, but it's important not to be ignorant. So anyway, for example, men, what's really interesting is they go through things that are quite different regards, like for example, a lot of people think the whole thing for men is that they want to be really muscular and that's actually not necessarily it I've never had a client who came to me be like, "I'm not muscular enough. I need to have a six pack." Never. Usually it's things like being small, but they hate the idea of being small or like when they were younger. For most men, when they're teenagers, they're very skinny and then they fill out when they get a bit older that when they were young, they had comments from men in their families that were basically saying that they weren't masculine enough. A big thing for men is having pecks, which I never really thought about. But so many men tell me that when you're a teenager, getting pecks is the sign that you've become a man because you have like a man's chest. Then I thought, how have I never thought about this because it's the same for women? It's like, I've got hoops now. Woo, it's the same thing, basically. I just never thought about it. Then for them, it's more things like their masculinity. So for men, it can be different things. It could be not having facial hair. It could be losing their hair. Losing your hair is such a huge thing for men. People often will joke about it and make like bold jokes and things like this. But I mean, imagine if we lost our hair, I would not be feeling okay about it. I'd be like, ooh, I look, I'm feeling great. It would take me a bit of time to accept that, particularly as a woman, but men are just expected to be okay with it and to just get on with it. Side note, though, I think bold is very sexy, but anyway, put that to the side. And various different things like that, but it always comes back to what their dad said to them and the comments they received usually from their dad, because dad is, for men, dad is the symbol of masculinity. Unfortunately, a lot of men can have fathers who carry a lot of toxic masculinity and may not actually be masculine at all in the sense of what actually is masculinity, but have those really toxic traits of like I never talk about my emotions and I behave a certain way. That's not really masculine. It's just putting on a show basically. So then they don't feel good and comfortable in their own masculinity. That's more so what it is for men. Then for trans and non-binary people it's like finding who they are and if they're like finding comfort in the body they're already in, or trying to change that body and figure out how to be comfortable in the new body. There's a whole other scape of things that happen there too, but it always comes back to everything that's happened up until that point and the conversations that have been had, the comments that have been made. Then because of that, we create these inner critics and it's the inner critic that can just get bigger and bigger and bigger if we allow it to and we all need to get that inner critic really small. I always say, it's like your inner critic is huge and has a microphone and you need to slap it out of their hand, make them shut up, make them shut up because we all have these inner critics who can be nasty. Like I remember when I had poor body image back years ago, when every time I looked in the mirror, this critic would be like, you need to lose weight. You need to do this, you need to do that. There was this whole list of things that used to come out and that rarely happens to me now. But if it does, if there's the occasional day when that creature crawls out of her hole and decides to say something horrible to me, then that comment, when I hear it in my head, I just say to myself, I know that's not true. I actually give myself evidence that it's not true. So let's say the critic says to me, you really need to lose weight. I'm going to come back with, I know that's not true. I know that's not true. You know how I know that's not true. I eat well, I do movement, I feel fantastic in my body. I look great. Like everything about me is fabulous. I'll even like picture these things. I'll be thinking of like how I looked walking in the street. Obviously, I can't see myself walking in the street, but I'll visualize it. I'll be like, she was fabulous and I will just shut that narrative up and then it just disappears. But it takes a bit of time and practice to get to that point where when the critic appears, you can just say, get out of here. I don't need your opinions and I've got evidence that you're wrong. [DR. CRISTINA] I can just imagine people listening, going how do you do that? Like, there's no way I could, I know people are looking at me thinking bad things or they're having negative thoughts about me when I walk down the streets or my family members always make negative comments to me. How am I supposed to think positive about myself? [CLIONA] Well, there's so many, there's a few things that have to happen there. So family members making comments about you, boundaries. Boundaries have to be, these are things that I help clients with. So you have to be able to say to your family, like communicate with them on how to stop saying these comments to you. So that's a huge thing, is to be able to set boundaries of people in regards my appearance is not up for conversation. And do it in a way that doesn't make you feel horrifically guilty, that doesn't cause huge arguments, that actually works. So that's a huge part of what I do. Then the other bit regards other people's comments really comes down to, basically what I do is a lot of work with clients, regards realizing how negative they are about other people's bodies and what comments they're making about other people's bodies. Because what basically happens is when we are not feeling good about ourselves, we start looking at everyone else with a really critical life. The reason we do that is so we can feel a little bit better about ourselves for a slight second, not even very long. So we'll see someone walking down the street and say, well, they would look great if they cut their hair or they would have a lovely smile, but they've got like one crooked tooth or they would, whatever, so this critical thing starts up. It gets into a habit and it gets worse over time because the more critical we are of other people, we basically spiral and we become more critical of ourselves. They're just like the tip of the iceberg when you compare to how critical we are of ourselves. So being critical of other people makes impacts our own body image and makes it worse. So what I get clients to do is to stop doing that and to start actually looking for the good in other people. So instead of seeing someone and saying they need to cut their hair, thinking, God, they look so happy walking down the street or God that person has the most fabulous smile. They're just dazzling; all these things like start looking for the positives, looking for the positives. That helps us because it helps us boost our own body image and to also stop presuming that everyone else is doing that because the truth is people who feel good about their bodies are not wasting time looking around the streets being like you would look better if, you would look better if, because that's not part of their mind. Like, they're just not aware of it in the same way as I don't walk down the street and take notice of every brick that I see, every like little red brick or brick in the wall, because I'm not obsessed with bricks. I don't care about bricks. There is nothing that could be less interesting to me than that. Or acknowledging every door that I see and thinking, God, that door would be a lot nicer if. Because I don't care. It's the same for bodies it. If you are being critical of other people's bodies, that is like a massive warning sign to you that you need to go deal with your own body image. It's not just when you're walking in a street. It's even if someone pops up on the television and you're like, whoa, that's a weird looking man, little comments like this. That's also being very critical. Why couldn't you just see the man and go, okay, and listen to the dialogue of what's happening in the show you're watching? So that's, it's this not everyone's judging you all the time. People are so caught up in their own heads and actually it's quite egotistical to think that everyone walking around is looking at you and judging you or even half of them, or even 10% or 1% of them. Because everyone's living their lives. We're not all the centers of the universes. I never really notice anyone's appearance unless they're wearing something where I'm like, oh, that is gorgeous. Where can I get this or something like that? Or maybe someone's dressed up like a clown and they're walking down the street, like, I mean an actual clown and someone who's badly dressed. But if they are walking down the street like a costume, of course, you're going to notice someone's dressed like a clown. But otherwise I'm not looking at people with that critical eye. I'm too busy thinking about when I'm going to eat for dinner. [DR. CRISTINA] I'm wondering, too, I hear a lot of people, maybe they didn't have things said at home, but a lot of people say, gosh, I got bullied. I got teased in elementary school or junior high. That was really traumatic. That sticks with them. I'm wondering do you ever hear parents say maybe it's not me or maybe I do have negative body image, but I don't really say much at home, but my kids really struggling and it's a real thing, like every day for them? [CLIONA] Yes, this one comes up a lot and this is a really tough one there. As I say this, a lot of people listening to are going to go, h. But when we have kids who are being bullied, particularly about their parents, we have to teach them how to deal with that. We have to teach them how to handle the bully, which is really difficult because most of us do not know how to handle a bully and then also how to handle what's being said to them. So what can happen is if we don't act upon anything, we don't really do anything, the kids start to think, well, the bully must be right because no one here is telling me otherwise. Then they don't learn how to deal with the bully either. So if we don't help them with the situation, they believe it. Every child is like this. If people don't step in, they say, well, I must deserve this. I must deserve this bullying because I have one ear that's higher up than the other or whatever silly thing it is they're being bullied over. And bullying is serious, whether it's like on the milder, it's considered mild. I think all bullying is hideous, but the milder scale of someone making the occasional comment to someone being physically injured while having comments and being harassed in this way and emotionally bullied and all those things. So the best thing we can do, and this is really hard is to figure out how to deal with bullies. Most adults do not know how to do that. I myself had to figure this out and it was really difficult like, Ooh, this was tough. I was in my old workplace, so before I became a body confidence coach, I had a bully and it was really bad. A lot of feelings came up for me during that time. I was feeling frustrated and I was annoyed that no one else was coming in and helping me. It just clicked to me one day and I was like when I was a child, I wanted someone to step in and help me. I wanted someone to fix the situation for me, but nobody walked in. I wanted someone to tell me that I wasn't ugly in fat and that I was good enough and that none of that stuff was true. I didn't receive any of that. Then it registered. I was like, wait a second, I'm the adult. I'm the one who's not showing up for me right now and dealing with the situation. I'm not showing up for myself and saying, no, this person is wrong. All of these things aren't true. Let me give you the evidence, just like with the inner critic, which is our own internalized bully actually. [DR. CRISTINA] Right. [CLIONA] But I had to figure that out. So that's what I did. I stood up for myself, I dealt with the situation, I spoke up. I was like, this is what's going on. I went to my head bosses. I gave evidence to show what was happening and the things that were being said to and I dealt with the situation. But until then, I was just basically allowing to happen to myself. In order to really help kids we have to be able to figure out how to show up for ourselves and show up for that little inner child that we all have and then we were able to show our kids how to do it because sometimes our kids can see us being bullied. Maybe there's someone in the family or a close friend or someone who is bullying us and the kids are seeing it and they're not learning how to deal with a bully, whereas if we know how to deal with it someone comes into our door and starts saying nonsense. We will handle it and they will see us handle it and then they'll know how to deal with people like that. So we have to figure it out. [DR. CRISTINA] That's a huge thing. I know it's very painful and it sticks with kids throughout their life if they have those negative messages. It can be very impactful what peers say. I know it's a big issue now with social media. Like I didn't grow up obviously with the internet or all that, but I know it's something that I'm trying to understand that part too, like how pervasive it is and what damage can be done on such a different level than just in a classroom or in a social setting. [CLIONA] One of the things that's very difficult is if, okay, so if you have a child who is being bullied through social media, which basically every child is going to be bullied now will be bullied through social media because for a bully it's so easy. You just hide behind your phone and you write whatever you want. So we just have to consider the norm now as part of bullying. The thing is, if we don't learn how to deal with stuff, we actually almost can't get enough of it. So for example, and I know that sounds bizarre, but what I mean by that is if we have someone bullying us online, we almost need to go and see what they've done next. It's almost like this curiosity can take over. It's like, what if they have written to me, what's going to happen next? What's being said last? And kids need to learn how to walk away from that, because if you are not present and you're not looking at those things online, the bully can't attack you in that way. Bullies basically just look at what way they can attack you and they throw out hooks. If you grab onto one of the hooks, they've got you. So how not to grab onto those? We really need to be able to educate kids on not having this desire to actually see what's the latest thing the bully's done to them. Ignorance is bliss. So how do we get to walk away from my account on Instagram, my account on TikTok and maybe start a new one separate so that bully can't be annoying them through it or to report it or to tell someone about it, how to do that. So we really, again, we have to figure out for ourselves too, in order to be able to do that. It's a big responsibility. This is not easy. It is tough. It's tough work. It's tough internal work. [DR. CRISTINA] These are all big issues that I knew we could probably have like a podcast on each of these topics, honestly. We could be here for days. So anybody's out there, who's a parent and listening, going, oh my gosh, I'm a parent too, and have teenagers and this is tough stuff. So I'm not trying to sugar coat it and say like, oh yes, there's just a simple, like 40-minute podcast here. We're going to solve the world. I mean, this is hard. But I think it's important to bring these things up and say anyone dealing with this, like we hear you. I think we need to keep the conversation going. [CLIONA] Yes, and also just to say I didn't figure all this stuff out in like a week or two. This is stuff that took me quite a while to figure out. That's why I help people with it because I didn't have anyone to help me figure it out. I didn't have anyone that had to help me mend my relationship with myself. That's why I became the person that I am now. I have to go through it and figure out how to help other people with it and that's why I do, but again, for anyone listening to us, don't panic. You don't have to figure this out by tomorrow. No pressure. [DR. CRISTINA] If people do want to work with you or find you or find your materials, how can they do that? [CLIONA] So the two best ways to find me are my own website, which is cleanerburn.com. There's a free body confidence journal, so if anyone wants that, please go grab it, please go get it. You can find out all about my work there and the different packages I do at one on one coaching and also the workshops I do. Then the other best place to find me is on Instagram. My handle is cleaner_coach and I post lots of stuff there. Feel free to get in and contact with me. If you've got any questions or anything, send me a message. I'd love to hear from everyone. [DR. CRISTINA] Awesome. All of that, information's going to be on the show notes on the website. So please go there. Your name is spelled very interestingly. So please go there and find all of that information at the website. So thank you so much. You do have such fantastic work and it's so needed. I really appreciate you being here. Any final words before we end? [CLIONA] Just be a little bit nicer to yourself and start that with just smiling at yourself. So every time you catch your reflection or in storefront, whatever you're doing, smile at yourself. Just start with that. If anything, just start with that and make it a habit and I promise you, it will make such a difference to how you see yourself. [DR. CRISTINA] Thank you. Thank you, again. [DR. CRISTINA] This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or any other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.